Awesome numbers - congrats! And youre spoiling uber fast as well!

 

I actually have spool slowed down to combat the compressor surge I'm experiencing. I can spool fully to 24psi at 3800.

 

Hoy cow!! Congratulations. Thanks for the thanks. You might have just taken the TD06 record, I don't recall exactly what it was.

Aaron

 

Darn close: http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=359509&highlight=td06+record

Play with your smoothing (Matt's is at 3) and you will be even closer.

Aaron

 

That 454 is corrected though, but it is at 23psi, and my intake temps are rather high.

What is impressing me is how well it is carrying to redline, and with only 2psi higher boost 21 => 23psi, I increased 30hp! If only I had some of that nylon tubing to add some boost to the top of the wastegate and make her stay shut!

Maybe in a few weeks, I had a blast!!!

 

Wow, not bad at all!

So you are spraying 10gph of pure meth right now? Where is the nozzle? Tried mixing in any water?

What all did you change with the tune? Cam timing change any? That is a very impressive powerband. :thumbup

 

Awesome! What were the iats?

 

Yes, 100% meth. Post IC in cold-pipe. No, no water yet. Before I had best results with pure meth cooling the intake charge the most.

Tune-wise I changed the timing and made sure I was creating the same boost to redline, as well as leaned it out to 12.0-ish. Timing didn't change hp/tq much, fuel helped some Didn't touch cam timing, my graph looks better than most TD06s so I figured I found a sweet-spot with the cams and left them be.

IAT started at 111 every run and ended at 140s at 21psi and 150s at 23psi.

 

Not bad, the meth should indeed cool the intake charge better then water due to it evaporating faster (i have a test planned to demonstrate this actually, need to break out the camera and do it). The water can provide better power inside the motor in some cases from my research. It will also lower the EGT's more then meth.

It is a fine balance and there is very little real data on it so i was curious if you had any to add.

Can't knock the power you are making though, whatever you are doing it is working. :thumbup

 

Not bad my iats on E85 with no meth and a sidemount were 170-180s.

You going to speed source Saturday? What I need comes in Friday, so I might be making it.

 

Yessir, I am planning to.

 

Cool well ill post up on the main thread late Friday if I am going(depends if I get my stuff back together..)

 

Oh, these were 4th gear pulls =/. Tires spun like mad with 3rd gear pulls once I hit about 10 psi.

Are 4th gear pulls more or less power generally? Tires are slightly bigger as well, does that affects output.

 

On a dynojet the power readings are usually pretty close between 3rd and 4th from what i have seen. The difference comes with some cars holding more/less boost in 1 gear or the other and also 4th gear pulls will get higher IAT's as a rule.

Now spool is improved in 4th gear by a few hundred RPM's.

 

That 454 is corrected though, but it is at 23psi, and my intake temps are rather high.

from my experience with turbo cars the Dynojet correction factor for altitude is too much, but the correction for temperature is too little. So dyno again when it gets cooler and you might take the record.

Aaron

 

Did you touch anything with the cam timing?

 

Did you touch anything with the cam timing?

See post #9

Nice numbers OP!

 

Nice results :thumbup

Did you increase the timing for the 21psi dynojet run over the original run? Just wondering how close the first dyno guy's estimate was on the dynojet reading 420WHP was.

 

See post #9

Nice numbers OP!

Thanks, skimmed over it, had to get going and didn't see it.

 

I actually have spool slowed down to combat the compressor surge I'm experiencing. I can spool fully to 24psi at 3800.

Hey, question for you - how are you slowing the spool? My 3071 gets some surge on high boost as well. I'm assuming your boost controller let's you set this?

 

Aaron: I didn't think I would be this close to Matt, his head was worked very well, TMIC, custom IM, compared to my rather bolt on ordeal. You better believe I'm going after his numbers now though :thumbup . I'm at 700 or so feet above sea level, I think. The heat index of the days have been 115 :thumbdown .

Kangaroo: Yes I increased timing, quite a bit. I did NOT gain much power, but the curves were smoother than with the retarded timing so I left them advanced. If you take the 367 and the 424 (corrected) graph, then the dynamometer guy was right on the money.

Dracon: Yes, I control it using the AEM. I could keep it at 14psi till 5000, then shoot it up to 24psi if I wanted. I checked the turbo yesterday night, no shaft play so I'm happy for now.

 

Aaron: I didn't think I would be this close to Matt, his head was worked very well, TMIC, custom IM, compared to my rather bolt on ordeal. You better believe I'm going after his numbers now though :thumbup . I'm at 700 or so feet above sea level, I think. The heat index of the days have been 115 :thumbdown

Hmm, the exhaust manifold porting would seem to be helping you some afterall, he was using a stock un-ported manifold IIRC.

The other thing to note is that didn't you install a better compressor wheel in your TD06 when you rebuilt it? Also I wounder if your turbine housing is the same size, you make way better power up top then Matt and at lower boost, he was pushing 32psi peak and then it would taper off to make his numbers.

Not sure why you are making such good power to be honest. The meth injection ain't hurting you that is for sure as well.

Also would not be the first time that an E85 car beat out a Q16 car. You are both at about the same altitude.

Kangaroo: Yes I increased timing, quite a bit. I did NOT gain much power, but the curves were smoother than with the retarded timing so I left them advanced. If you take the 367 and the 424 (corrected) graph, then the dynamometer guy was right on the money.

Matches up pretty well with my other research. E85 being an alcohol has a very wide tuning margin when it comes to timing. The timing doesn't have the same effect as it does with gas. Most of the tuning with alcohol comes from the AFR's. I saw this repeated over and over when doing research for my Methanol powered build (which is still going to happen at some point).

With methanol you get the timing in the ballpark and then basically leave it alone and then mess with the AFR's. Once the AFR's are real close the timing can have more of an effect on power it seems. The majority of the power is had from AFR's from what i have noticed though.

E85 tuning is different then Gas that is for sure, every tuner that has used it said it took time to figure it out and get the most out of E85.

 

Yes, my exhaust manifold is ported, and my 20g is modified. I ported the exhaust housing extensively, and my compressor wheel is a kinugawa replacement wheel as I ruined my last one. All modifications were shown in the exhaust manifold thread I made.

I was scared to run any leaner than 12.0-12.2 =/. Not gonna lie lol.

 

Yes, my exhaust manifold is ported, and my 20g is modified. I ported the exhaust housing extensively, and my compressor wheel is a kinugawa replacement wheel as I ruined my last one. All modifications were shown in the exhaust manifold thread I made.

I was scared to run any leaner than 12.0-12.2 =/. Not gonna lie lol.

Yep, I remember you saying that you didn't think the porting helped much, looks like it might have afterall.

I am no expert on that wheel but it would seem to also be helping. I wounder what size turbine you have vs Matt?

Far as running lean, yeah it can be a little hairy to tune E85 at first like i said before, it tunes very different then gas.

From my research E85 likes to run around .85 - .88 lamba. Which on a Gas wideband is 12.5-13.0:1. But that is not the whole story since E85 adds oxygen to the mix and the real AFR is down around 8.2:1.

I bet there is more power to be had if you lean it out more. Speaking of which, you leaned it out since the mustang dyno right? That would have given you a fair amount of extra power.

I would reduce the timing some before leaning it out more though. The general rule of tuning alcohol is to get the timing in range, erroring on the side of being too retarded, then adjust the AFR's till you find max power. Then go back to timing and go back and forth till you get the best tune.

The problem with alcohol in this respect is that you can advance the timing too far and still not have any knock and be making good power.

While this won't shatter pistons or have any normal signs of knock it will still have too much pressure early in the combustion cycle and can lead to bearing wear, some of those stories of E85 getting in the oil and causing wear are really just too much cylinder pressure too early in the combustion cycle but yet not knock. Lifting heads, bent rods ect. Basically the same things that would happen if you were making too much power for the parts all the while not knocking.

This is why it has taken tuners some time to get used to E85 and use it to it's full potential

Now exactly how to tune E85 perfect? I have not found that magic recipe, none of the tuners want to share the exact ways they tune it seems.

From my research though i would recommend that you first remove a little timing for now and then try leaning it out more, see what happens if you go into the mid to high 12's. If it likes it (all cars are different afterall) then you can try adding in some timing.

I would stop adding timing if you are only picking up 1 or 2 HP per degree of timing. If you are picking up 4 or 5hp+ per degree then you know you are getting close.

As a rule alcohol is more forgiving on the AFR's then it is on timing from my research. I would not be afraid of leaning it out some more, just got to be careful with the timing (and AFR for that matter), if you are only picking up 1 or 2 hp per degree of timing or afr point you know you are very close. It is easy to go too far chasing those small gains since alcohol is so forgiving.

Till you/we know more on the exact science of tuning E85 to perfection I would call it quits when the gains get down that low per change. I would also feel better about adjusting the AFR over timing as a new to E85 tuner.

Remember this is all 2nd hand research from months of reading up on alcohol tuning/cars. But i have not been able to try it personally (at least pure alcohol, did play with 2000cc of meth injection for awhile). So take it with a grain of salt. I am sure all of that is not perfect by any means just the best i have been able to piece together with tidbits from all over the place.

 

Cool, I guess.