[Nolat]

Even if you didnt make 200rwhp with a 2zz, from what I have read most stock engines put out about 160 to 170 to the wheels so it would definately be fast.

My matrix in stockish form put down 160 whp. One guy in toronto put 166 down with an intake. Seen 180whp with I/E (no cat). Not to mention I believe the 2zz weighs less than the 4ag as its full aluminum. Thus helping the weight distribution and upping the power to weight.

And yeah waiting for lift to kick in is annoying.

 

[jabba]

teh 2zz are deffinatly making more power on teh dyno then the 20v's are. one thign with a standalone is how would you do the valve and cam timing??? the change over is way high in the rev range though wich would be nicer lower. with a standalone like m/s how would you control the cam. does the power fc do this???? if so how?

 

[RulerofEarth]

Does the 2zz really weigh less than a 4ag? Anyone got some specs on that?

 

[Nitsud]

jabba: A well-tuned 2zz (for example the PowerFC MonkeyWrenchRacing MAPs) will make the 2zz come alive. You barely even notice the valve lift effect, the whole range of revs has power available

Red 20v: I wouldn't be surprised. Lighter internals, no oil cooler, 1/3 the vacuum fittings, lines and piping than the MR2 4AGs. Probably a good bit lighter.

 

[neko]

yeah but 20v's have no oil coolers, wayy less vaccum lines (i'm sure less than a us-spec 2zz).

and sure, a standalone ECU makes the 2ZZ make some real power. A standalone ECU makes any motor make more power once properly tuned. Look at what can be achieved with a 3sgte and aftermarket ECU. or a 4AGZE and a $200 MS system.

and hmm... 1.8L at 11.5-1 compression? 180hp? 1.6L at 11-1? 165? seems kinda even.. wonder what a stroked blacktop at 1.8L (7age block) with 11.5-1 compression would make? more than 180? i wonder. hmm... might have to try it out.

and you all seem to forget the most important thing about the 20v versus the 2zz..the 20v bolts right in and is easy to work with. the 2zz would be a much more complex install.. and require quite a bit more fab. hence why it hasn't happened. i mean a northstar v8 makes way more power than either of these motors, but not everyone's rushing out to drop one in... if the 2zz were as easily avail and as cheap, and wasn't half the pain it would be to install, i'd go for it. good luck to the first person to attempt it. (sure as heck ain't gonna be me...)

 

[Nolat]

Does the 2zz really weigh less than a 4ag? Anyone got some specs on that?

2zzge rated at 115kg Reference
4age 20v rated at 155kg (found it on a web site, im not sure) Reference

 

[uspspro]

88 lbs difference that's really good! Especially since the lighter motor is the one with higher displacement.

 

[Nitsud]

and sure, a standalone ECU makes the 2ZZ make some real power. A standalone ECU makes any motor make more power once properly tuned.

Nothing to do with actual power gains, it's everything to do with the usable power through the revs. The stock 2zz is tuned so the valve lift and VVTI is really noticable for a VTEC feeling that people will associate with it. With the PFC on a 2zz, the valve lift barely noticable and there is power available through the entire range, not just at 6000 RPM like stock

 

[neko]

that would be an excellent improvement over the 2zz's i've driven.

 

[verno-dub]

Guys, understand that the 1zz has more to offer as of the aftermarket...

 

[R E D]

I use to think 2zzge used the same block as the 7afe but after doing more research.
-2zzge rods length 137.9 mm
Block height 211.75mm
82mm Bore X 85mm Stroke

-1zzfe rods length 146.65mm
Block height not sure of but believe its the same as the 2zz's
78.994mm Bore X 91.440 Stroke

-7afe rods length 132.5mm
Block height 206mm
81mm Bore X 85.5mm Stroke

 

[neko]

1ZZ may have more aftermarket out there, but understand that a 20v would probably whop on a 1ZZ, Stock for Stock. Right off the bat, i'd be inclined to leave the 1ZZ alone, and start with something that offers more power to begin with. Just like the GZE will always have more power potential than the 20v, and if you want big power you aren't going to make it with the 20v. (without adding forced induction, but i think thats true of any motor. not exactly a viable solution with high comp, high revving motors, if you ask me. Just a receipie for impending doom.)

 

[verno-dub]

Now let me ask you this, why would you do a swap and leave it stock? I would leave the stock 16v in it I wanted stock..

 

[Ditto]

A friend of mine has my old 85 Mr2 (starting to blow smoke at about 160k mi.). I have a 1zz (taken out of my Spyder for 2zz swap) with 18k mi. on it (we would use a 2zz but I have this engine and will sell it to him cheap). We are planning to do this swap. The 1zz is lighter than the 2zz so weight savings will be close to 100lbs with a 26 hp increase. If he wants more power later some are pushing close to 300hp on the 1zz with turbo on stock internals.

Most of the wrench turning and modification I believe I can handle. However electronics are what is going to be the bugger for us. What would you folks recomend for making the swap work electronically? Can we wire up the engine separate from the rest of the car and have it work? ie: use the Spyder ecu or power fc for the engine and the 85 Mr2 ecu for the car?

 

[neko]

you don't need the ECU for the car. the ecu doesn't control anything on the car really. the ecu controls the engine, thats the majority of the wiring. then it has a few outputs to the dash, and a few inputs from the car to help it idle-up and such. thats all. shouldn't be hard to wire in the spyder ecu. despite the fact that the wiring is more difficult than the mechanical work on a 20v, i think the wiring would pale in comparison to the fabrication and mechanical work of the ZZ swap.

 

[Proj3ct_Run@bout]

the 1zz is where it's at. 2zz is hard to mod and blow up. get an +03 up 1zz as the 00-02 have oil flow problems (i know). add a 2zz head and a pfc w/ 6spd and u got a fast mr2. the 1zz has is way better powerband also. I have a celica and read lots on newcelica.org. Some people have actually blown their 2zz and consider getting a 1zz. also depends on how much $$ u want to spend. stock the 2zz is the better option, but any mods and the 1zz can pass the 2zz.

 

[RulerofEarth]

What are the oil flow problems?

 

[Proj3ct_Run@bout]

in the 1zz, the oil sump does not hold pressure sometimes. I believe that air gets in the line because the sump is to the front of the oil pan and in certain situations causes the bad flow. hard acceleration and hills i think can cause it. I own a celica gt and it burns oil at odd times (i can smell it sometimes). i have 92,XXX and burn maybe 1/2 quart or a lil more in 3000. if u got more questions go to newcelica.org and try a search.

 

[Guest]

the 1zz is from the spyder? right? what's the power output of that engine compared to the 2zz, i had a celica gt that was slow as crap, but it was an automatic. i was pondering the gts engine in my mk1 87, mostly because no one else has done it. i am aiming at having a 200 hp mk1, so a 2zz with i/h/e would be pretty damn close plus having a new engine over an old ass 4age.

 

[turbo_jimbo]

it seems like you all are completly unaware of what the new zz series engines are... first, the 2zz head does not fit on the 1zz block. second, the header littlerocket makes has been dyno'd at somthing like 185hp to the wheels in a spyder. third, dont listen to ANYTHING said on newcelica. those guys are idiots. if you want real information about the 1zz or 2zz check out the mkiii forums here, or spyderchat.com its that easy. all the information is in front of you, you just have to look. as far as i know, the trans from the 1zz or 2zz will work with the 4age as long as you swap the bell housing. so if the tranny fits that easy, then how bad can making the engine bolt up be? maybe 1 mount to fab... oohhh scary... look at the 3sgte swap in the mki. thats fab work. this swap seems very viable. there is a guy on spyderchat swapping the 2zz into his hachi-roku, why cant it be done in the aw11? if i had more time maybe i would try.