Place is kinda dead, eh?

ATS Racing used a DET3 a little while back on a gen3 I think. Maybe see if they can weigh in via email or something?

 

Ok, gotcha. I may try them. I'm finding some support on the Supra sites. Many of them are currently using them.

I think I figured it out, but wondered if anyone else is trying it. I'd like to find someone who already used the "learning" mode and might have a map that I could use.

It's pretty cool, actually, that you can use the stock AFM, record all the fuel and ignition trims the ECU is doing as a result of the AFM output and then switch over to speed density and maintain the 3D map that was built while learning, so that you have a drivability map to start with, before making major adjustments.

Thanks!

 

why not just go full EMS system VS piggyback?

 

We have not tried to remove the AFM yet, because all the cars we have installed and tuned it on, are our "California" spec builds, and they have to look stock. But we have been making north of 300HP with the DET3, and our CT21/27 turbo upgrades. Our plan was to get a bone stock car, install a DET3, and do a lot of testing of different low budget mods, but we just have not had time, and our test car was being difficult.

 

Interesting. Cool. Is that power level while running in piggyback mode or in the FIT mode?

I have a short window of time to test it on my car before the spring time and I need to be back on an EMS. Maybe you can save me some setup time and I'd be happy to share the testing data with you.

I'm trying to understand if I can avoid going back to 440cc injectors in order to allow the unit to "learn", with the AFM installed). Is the reference table developed by the unit (relating manifold pressure to the AFM signal voltage) "inside" the unit somehow, or is this just the fuel maps in the software? If it's just software, I would think that information could be shared and adjusted for an individual setup. It could get me close.

I just couldn't determine if I "had" to go back to stock to start (allowing the unit to develop some data in order to run in FIT mode later), or if I could keep my larger fuel system and E85 fuel and tune it out without the need to obtain some "learning" information for the unit.

I have 1200cc injectors and a modified CT26 that produced 315 WHP (uncorrected) at altitude. I would love to see if this power level could be managed safely with this unit.

Our local community could really benefit from the value of a device that could do this.

Thanks.

 

It would be interesting if someone could use this unit to plot an official table of the gen2 and gen3 factory ignition timing maps, and share it with the community.

 

I don't believe the unit will do that. I asked Zach at ECU Masters and he's said the DET3 won't "know" what the actual timing is, but you can retard or advance from the current (unknown) value at any given time.

I had hoped it could do that too. I may have found a way to build a separate device (a friend said he could design it) that can actually measure and record the actual timing maps. I may attempt to do this if I find (for sure) the DET3 cannot do this.

 

just a friendly reminder spdDm0n you can use the det3 program and dyno the car on road!

 

I am confused by the premise of this entire thread. The AFM has nothing to do with timing. It is just a signal of air flow to the ECU. There is ignition timing, injector timing, and valve timing. They all have nothing to do with the AFM or MAP or even MAF. Ignition and injector on a Gen2 and Gen3 timing is done from the distributor sensor, but I don't think that is what you want to change.

It sounds like reading through the thread is that you want your bigger injectors to have the same fuel flow as the 440 stock injectors. There are 2 ways to do this: 1. Through the use of an Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR). 2. Through ECU tuning of the injector duty cycle. Both of these are different than timing. In the first case, the bigger injectors will just flow less fuel than they are capable of. This is the easiest way to simulate the 440 injectors without changing the ECU or stock map, but you may not get good atomization of the fuel. The second one requires a tunable piggy back ECU or stand alone that you can enter your injector size or offset the duty cycle by some percentage from the stock injectors. If it is a single compensation percentage, then you can simply take the ratio of the 440 to new injector flow rate. For example, 440/550 = 20% reduction in duty cycle to simulate the amount of fuel for a 440 at the same fuel pressue.

 

The AFM has nothing to do with timing. It is just a signal of air flow to the ECU. There is ignition timing, injector timing, and valve timing. They all have nothing to do with the AFM or MAP or even MAF.

This is wrong.

 

I am confused

This is correct.

There is ignition timing, injector timing, and valve timing. They all have nothing to do with the AFM or MAP or even MAF.

Ignition timing has everything to do with calculated load, which is derived from either MAF, or MAP, or AFM. Look at an ignition map in any ECM whether OEM or stnadalone. One axis is load, the second axis is rpm, and the calculated axis is ignition angle. This is true in every ECM sold since the end of the carburetor era, except for systems where the load is based on alpha-N (throttle opening), which are a rarity.

Google, show me examples of ignition angle maps - Google Search

 

This is correct.



Ignition timing has everything to do with calculated load, which is derived from either MAF, or MAP, or AFM. Look at an ignition map in any ECM whether OEM or stnadalone. One axis is load, the second axis is rpm, and the calculated axis is ignition angle. This is true in every ECM sold since the end of the carburetor era, except for systems where the load is based on alpha-N (throttle opening), which are a rarity.

Google, show me examples of ignition angle maps - Google Search

Dude...you are just trying to win an argument that is orthogonal to this thread. The sensors of AFM, MAP, and MAF feed into the ECU. It is a systemic measurement. Your fuel map these sensors plus engine temp, IAT, rpm, and O2 sensor control fuel delivery, but it is not fuel timing. It is fuel amount. The injectors fire according to the valve train via a CAM/distributor and crank sensor for each individual cylinder. This is especially true for VVTI. The duration is controlled by the other sensors. That is NOT TIMING.

 

Dude...you are just trying to win an argument that is orthogonal to this thread. The sensors of AFM, MAP, and MAF feed into the ECU. It is a systemic measurement. Your fuel map these sensors plus engine temp, IAT, rpm, and O2 sensor control fuel delivery, but it is not fuel timing. It is fuel amount. The injectors fire according to the valve train via a CAM/distributor and crank sensor for each individual cylinder. This is especially true for VVTI. The duration is controlled by the other sensors. That is NOT TIMING.

I am not trying to win an argument and I am not arguing with you because, as we all know, it is pointless to argue with someone like you.

I am refuting what you wrote which is completely wrong, and I quote it again,

There is ignition timing, injector timing, and valve timing. They all have nothing to do with the AFM or MAP or even MAF.

Maybe you meant something else, but this as written is wrong.

 

I am not trying to win an argument and I am not arguing with you because, as we all know, it is pointless to argue with someone like you.

I am refuting what you wrote which is completely wrong, and I quote it again,



Maybe you meant something else, but this as written is wrong.

The fuel time has nothing to do with those sensors. I stand by that. Ignition timing, which I clarified can be advanced or retarded by manifold vacuum, but it is old school.

 

AFM/MAF/MAP signal have everything to do with the ECUs decissions about injector duty cycle and ignition timing. Like merryfrankster tried to explain. Lower load or air flow will get you higher timing advance which makes sense if you ever looked at a 2D load/rpm map. There are exceptions like full WOT might use only RPM as input and ignore the load signal. But the air meter signal is 100% used normaly for idle/part throttle/cruising so yeah smcbride is wrong.

 

LOL - Tack.