[ward spose]

More evidence that that the GT28RS is a superb choice for a street set up. Boost is useable and not an "event" For those looking to be around 300rwhp and have a large powerband this is the one. Can't wait to see what it can do on an unopened gen3, in a non smog restricted area, with better gas....

 

[cacasesi]

Can we see the pump gas plot? I'm not so crazy about the torque loss from 5k to 7k... 150 ft-lbs drop is a lot. This is exaggerated by the race gas and high boost, so I'd really like to see the true street setup plot.

 

[Dedicated-Matt]

I'm glad to see a good Gt28rs dyno. I now see how comparable this turbo is to the CT27. I only have a few CT27 dynos with a cat.

Can you post the graph of the 270hp with 91 octane?

Nice setup good job!

MAtt

 

[mr2turbored]

remember this has a cat in it, we've already seen the spool up of 2800 to 200ft/lbs on bruce h's car so this means spool is down around 400-500rpm straight away.

I've got a gt2860rs and a driven at ct27 and there not compairable at all. Peak might be similar but power band is totally different.

Just my opinion

 

[mr2boost]

Looks GOOD To me. Especially with cat in place. AWESOME SAFE tune there! AND... the gt28rs is a good turbo. Friend of mine has a Hass gt28rs turbo kit on his Spyder. 230rwhp on the spyder with instant spool is simply awesome too. I am strongly considering this turbo for my 91T and it is still in the running.

Thanks for the post and info Ricky. To 1sexy2...IT must be NICE!

Daniel :thumbup

 

[ctp0626]

Looks fantastic to me too!!! Congrats!!!

 

[RickyB]

I only have 3rd gear pulls of the setup on 91 octane.

 

[cacasesi]

I'm not trying to be a wanker or anything, this is obviously the setup that the owner wanted and Ricky did a great job tuning it, but that is a lot of money invested to make ~10whp more than a comparable ct20b or ct27 setup. And the powerband isn't revolutionary from what I can tell. Regardless of the cat, it looks an awful lot like either of the ct-series upgrades IMO and is not different enough to justify the price tag for me. I'm sure others can see the value though.

 

[mr2turbored]

i've never seen 300rwhp and torque from a ct upgrade with a cat inplace

 

[Guest]

Nice result RickyB.
Now how much wheel horse power will it be if the car is running 850cc injectors instead of 550cc and without the cat in place on 91 octane?

 

[ty_44_69]

^ I don't think the fuel system is holding him back any, and I'm sure there is a lot more to go before it is maxed out. Like mentioned above without the cat in place you could probably expect anywhere from 10 - 25 whp gain.

 

[RickyB]

Nice result RickyB.
Now how much wheel horse power will it be if the car is running 850cc injectors instead of 550cc and without the cat in place on 91 octane?

Injectors don't make power, they just support it. Obviously, since the AFR stays safe until redline at duty cycles are below 85% there is enough injector in this setup for the power it is making. I would expect to be making 20rwhp more without the converter. I could also make at least another 20rwhp on top of that with 110 octane race fuel.

 

[mr2turbored]

what about running a methanol mix in the water injection and mapping for it?

I'm doing the same thing with the methanol as an anti-det agent and mapping for its use, but i have a few warning systems for blocked jets, low water etc etc even made a low boost mode that kicks in when something is wrong.

 

[cacasesi]

i've never seen 300rwhp and torque from a ct upgrade with a cat inplace

Well, what sane person would keep a cat installed??! There are enough dynos of ~320 whp ct-series turbos to say that with a custom 3" high flow cat, they might make 300 whp. Most (all?) of those ct__ dynos weren't running a full EMS either.

In my mind, this setup made 272 whp. Race gas and high boost are not anything I'm personally interested in because I like to drive my car around every day on the same tune. There are more cost effective ways to hit 270 whp on pump gas. But this setup is definitely cooler!

 

[mister3]

Well, what sane person would keep a cat installed??! There are enough dynos of ~320 whp ct-series turbos to say that with a custom 3" high flow cat, they might make 300 whp. Most (all?) of those ct__ dynos weren't running a full EMS either.

In my mind, this setup made 272 whp. Race gas and high boost are not anything I'm personally interested in because I like to drive my car around every day on the same tune. There are more cost effective ways to hit 270 whp on pump gas. But this setup is definitely cooler!

with a stock engine and pump fuel (CA piss) + cat converter you'd be hard pressed to make anything over what RickyB got. wouldn't matter much about the turbo, intake, intercooler, etc -- it's the stock engine, cat and the crappy fuel at this point.

on a side note -- another car with stock engine, RMR intake, GReddy sidemount, ATS TD07, Nemesis, Wolfkatz TFFR w/850cc injectors, KO R1 3" single exit exhaust made 295whp on 91 octane. there may have been a few more wiring gremlins at play keeping the tune safe but all in all the stock engine and CA pump fuel were limiting factors. if the tune would have been pushed further toward the ragged edge i'm sure it would have just been a matter of time before the engine popped... on pump fuel.

RickyB keeps it safe and sane considering the circumstances we are under here in CA. that being said a 270whp (sniffer passing mind you) MR2 is still a pile of fun!

i'd also like to see some dyno proof of hese CT__? turbos making 270who w/oEMS and on CA pump fuel through a cat while keeping sniffer friendly. i'd bet money not all 3 can be achieved... will have to be a compromise somewhere to keep it safe

 

[Bruce H.]

It really is a shame that dyno graphs don't accurately reflect engine performance and the driving experience. They are just one dimensional representations of power production when the engine is operated at wide open throttle from a low rpm, in a gear that would likely not be used at that rpm, under a load condition that doesn't represent a real world condition, with a fan that is unable to simulate realistic airflow over the IC, with uncontrolled testing procedures, on engines with different degrees of tuning aggressiveness, and tuned to suit different goals of power and durability.

Then some try to focus on the power at a single rpm where peak power is made and try to draw a conclusion about the suitability of the turbo based on cost when the owners goal was clearly not focused on making cheap power. The list of mods does however show his determination to use the best components and services that money can buy for his dream ride, yet some feel compelled to ignore his obvious, and stated, priorities and compare it to used and rebuilt equipment with vastly different features, durability, and function.

It would be a real eye-opener if members had the opportunity to actually drive some of the cars we see dyno'd. You would have cars with very similar dyno charts that drive entirely different. What you thought you knew about spool from the dyno would not translate to actual performance with some, but might with others. The dyno doesn't measure, record, or reflect anything about throttle response which is probably of key importance to everyone regardless of the peak power they desire. It really doesn't even tell you much about spool except in the somewhat meaningless procedure used on the dyno. If we could drive some of these examples at the very least we would begin to understand how inadequate the dyno is at conveying the multi-dimensional aspects of real world engine performance.

Those who only drive their cars under the same conditions as used on the dyno will find everything they need to know about performance on the dyno registry. Fortunately for others we occassionally see the valuable impressions of those who have actually driven some of these different setups, and can offer us additional information that is critical in meeting our various goals...let's just not pretend that the dyno can do that. Thank you for your impressions in some of those areas Ricky.

Bruce

 

[mr2boost]

Here Here Bruce H.!!! Your pioneering efforts with the gt28rs is what got me interested in it. To see a dyno of a SAFE tune on a stock engine is just what the DR ordered for me. I want usable power throughout the power band. Something you can not get with big HP turbos. But, Ilike the person Ricky prepard this engine for, is looking for streetable/trackable power. I thik this is an AWESOME set-up. Now granted, I, do NOT have to meet emission standards where I live. So, i could see more powerful results.

I have driven various MR2's with different turbos and modifications. One of the best I like is my friend's 94T that has a gen3 in it. With intake, IC, DP, exhaust, and MBC set to around 17psi that is one STRONG engine. Drive my friends Hass turbo (gt28rs) Spyder and it is a very STRONG engine. Both are SAFE tuned and make great usable daily power. From a stock engine. Another friend has a fire breathing 320rwhp 91T that was simply one of the fastest cars I have ever driven (major modifications though--not even CLOSE to stock), even compared to the old 1968 Charger that had a real STRONG 383 magnum engine it it that I used to own (probably made 400rwhp--but DON'T go near any corners in that Charger).

So, I agree with what Bruce says about driving experience. The dyno just does not give the entire story. But, having driven an MR2 with the gt28rs (a 1.8L Spyder engine) I know the characteristics of this turbo. It spool much faster than the fire breathing td06 in my friends 91T. But, does not come close to the top end performance of the td06. So, if I had a gt28rs on my 91T and raced my friend in his 320rwhp td06 91T he would eat me up in the 1/4 mile. But, in the twisties I would a little faster for having better low-mid range throttle responce from the smaller turbo. So, it all has to do with which you prefer or want.

Like others have said. Just drive/ride in an MR2 turbo that is making around 250-270rwhp and see what you think. I think most people would be simply AMAZED!

Again, NICE work Ricky B. and NICE MR2 1sexy2!!!

Daniel :thumbup

 

[Bruce H.]

Thanks...it's great to have choices, and enough information to make the right one

Bruce

 

[RickyB]

A dyno graph doesn't reflect the actual response of the turbo under normal and spirited driving conditions. This car is the first 3SGTE that I've been able to take to 15psi and over under a load holding condition at 3K RPMs. The CT27 and even the stock CT26 only give 8-10 psi tops even if they are allowed all the time in the world to build boost at 3K RPMs. Even at only 2.5K, the turbo was making nearly 8psi under steady state.

 

[PhoenixMr2]

Havent heard anyone really talk about how this turbo might do with VE mods... Anyone have any guesses about this car with cams (264's) and an RMR intake manifold?