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Discussion Starter #1
i was lucky enough to get to use a really nice boroscope to look inside my engine today. the backs of the valves were very clean and there was actually no carbon on the backside of the valves. now on the face was a different story . all the intake valves had a layer of carbon on the face. some were a little wet from the oil burning in the cylinders, but they all togother looked good. the pistons look pretty good, and the cylinder walls look great as well. i think i am slowly narrowing it down to my turbo being my smoking culprit. tommorow im getting my car towed to my brother in laws house where i can use his enormous shop and lift :smile: this is the beggining of a long journey.... btw do you guys think i should replace the hg while i have the engine stripped down to just the block and head?
 

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how many miles are on the car? if you can spare the cost of doing it...definetely do it..and replace everything else easy to replace too. it's not everyday you've got the block and head apart (or even that you've got the engine out of the car)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
it just turned 99,000 miles. i think im gonna pull the head and have a shop go through the head for me. i will be replacing just about everything i can think of.
 

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whats a boroscope?

if you are going to take the head off, then definetly replace the head gasket and install new head studs.
 

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It is a little device that lets you insert it on the exhaust or intake ports of the head and can either be projected on a tv or just seen through the device itself. Its mainly used to check the head for carbon build up and leaks from valve seals ,but can also be used to inspect the pistons and cylinder walls as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
you guys think that i should replace the studs if i take the head off eh? i think im gonna use the hg that ats racing uses, its a metal hg. i wonder if their metal one is overkill though. boroscopes are great they let you see what the cylinder looks like without pulling the head. if i do new studs i should do arp studs right guys?
 

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red_91duece said:
you guys think that i should replace the studs if i take the head off eh? i think im gonna use the hg that ats racing uses, its a metal hg. i wonder if their metal one is overkill though. boroscopes are great they let you see what the cylinder looks like without pulling the head. if i do new studs i should do arp studs right guys?
They are actually bolts. A mechanic told me they shoud be replaced. When they are torqued down they stretch, which makes them usable only once. The BGB calls for replacement only if you are unable to torque them to the specified amount. I would replace them just to be safe.
 

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red_91duece said:
i was lucky enough to get to use a really nice boroscope to look inside my engine today. the backs of the valves were very clean and there was actually no carbon on the backside of the valves. now on the face was a different story . all the intake valves had a layer of carbon on the face. some were a little wet from the oil burning in the cylinders, but they all togother looked good. the pistons look pretty good, and the cylinder walls look great as well. i think i am slowly narrowing it down to my turbo being my smoking culprit. tommorow im getting my car towed to my brother in laws house where i can use his enormous shop and lift :smile: this is the beggining of a long journey.... btw do you guys think i should replace the hg while i have the engine stripped down to just the block and head?
I know it can be very frustrating, but often, I do my best to ask you young guys to think. I also do my best to prevent some of you from wasting time and money. So before you go to the trouble to replace the turbo, HG, and rework the head, please rethink your total symptoms and all of the tests you have done so far.

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=161583

red_91duece said:
Well like the title said i removed the hose from the pcv that goes into the intake, to check for oil possibly going into the intake from it. Air came out of it while the car was idling (and smoking lots) but no oil. not even a trace. maybe this could be one step closer to ruling out cylinder ring blowby. thought? ideas. btw i still havent had a chance to do a leak down, i really need to i guess. what percent should the cylinders be at?
Please take the time to think about these questions, answer them, and let?s continue our path in determining a better diagnosis of the problem.

1. What has the scope really told you that you didn?t already know?
2. Why would you expect oil to come out of the PCV pipe while idling?
3. If air and lots of smoke were coming out while idling, what would be the source of that air and smoke?
4. How much more air and smoke would you expect to come out while you are boosting, or just revving the engine?
5. And finally, could that volume of air and smoke under boost conditions, create significant pressure pulses in the crankcase that may possibly push oil droplets through the large PCV hose and the turbo?
 

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Yeah. I would further diagnose the problem, before opening the engine. If it hasn't been opened before, then you would be giving up a well-sealed engine. From what I've read, you can't get a new HG to seal as well as the original.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
well bryan,

for one i can tell the turbo is completely toast, no question about it. its quite obvious that it is. next during all my smoking issues there is no oil in the intake preceeding the turbo. Billwot told me that an engine that has good compression can have it because of the tons of carbon buildup inside the engine. well there looks to be no carbon on the backside of the valves, little on the faces and absolutely none on any exhaust valves anywhere. so i know that my normal compression is not a result of tons of carbon builup. the pistons look fine as well, they dont have much carbon. the thing is it would be very hard to understand how this could be blowby. for the first week i had this problem, the engine would run absolutely fine and would boost all the way with no smoking. so as you said high boost would cause cylinder blowby, well it hasnt seemed to at all. all these problem started roughly 2000 miles after having my turbo rebuilt and before that there were no signs of any engine problems. im not sure how it could just so happen that my compression is good, the turbo has 2-3mm of shaft play, there are metal sprinkles in the hotpipe, and before this major smoking episode the engine ran like new, yet the real culprit is the engine blowby, with a babied 99xxx mile car. i dont mind pulling the head and reworking the block, but why bother all that headache if my problem is the turbo? also the boroscope told me something that i didnt know. i thought my valves had carbon all over them, which they didnt, and it told me that my leak is not coming from the valve stem seals, because the back side of the valves are all dry. im not trying to evade the issue of engine blowby, but i think i am safe to rule it out now.
i believe that while idling the smoke is buring in the exhaust, which is why the smoke tends to be more white when its idling, and probably is why the car ran fine when it stopped smoking. then when i boosted or revved the engine more that one day it got more blue, but still white at the same time. the reason it smokes upon startup would probably be the left over oil in the cylinders from the turbo.
 

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If the scope told you the oil was not coming into the cylinder at the intake valve (still not clear on that diagnosis, but not major conclusion now), then how is it entering the cylinder?

I'm sorry for not remembering that you had metal filings from the turbo if you had posted that already. Why not list all your symptoms in one place and help us help you. If you are sure the turbo is the only problem and you know you need another one, then you will not really be out any money if you later have to do engine work. I really do feel bad when another member expects a new turbo to solve a problem and afterwards it is still there.

Edit: Added question mark after cylinder.
 

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I will add my 2 cents:

If the HG is not causing you any problems, leave it alone. If a gasket has been sealing for 99k miles, it is probalby pretty well "set in its ways" ;)

There is a lot more to removing the head (I just did it last night) than pulling the intake and exhaust manifolds. All of the water lines, electrical connections, timing belt, cam gears, cam gear covers (front and rear), cams, etc must be pulled in order to remove the head. The chances of messing something up in here is greater than the chance that you will prevent a problem by replacing a gasket before it fails.

Thats just the approach I take to maintenance but you can listen to these other guys. FYI, if you DO pull the head, DEFINITELY replace both the HG and Head Bolts. The bolts are stretch fit and should always be replaced after removal.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
lol i sorry bought the intake thing maybe i should reword that. i think it is coming in the intake valves once the engine is underload, and boosting a bit, i was making sure that it is not sitting on top waiting to be injected with fuel like it would be if my stem seals were leaking. ok i will list all my symptoms, thanks for the help btw guys.

-one evening i was boosting around and something just did not sound and or feel right about the turbo. for some reason it sounded louder than usual and was not boosting like it used to, a little less and more labored.
-the next morning i start the car up and 2-3 minutes later i walk out side and its puffing mostly white, somewhat blue smoke out the exhaust.
-after about 3 minutes of driving the car stoped smoking all together, and it run beautifully.
-every morning since then it has done it, except for one day about 2-3 weeks ago. it did the usual smoking so i went to drive off and it smoked big time while driving. then when i made an attempt to boost it smoked more and bogged down so after leaving the neigborhood in a hase of smoke i decided to put it away. i opened up all the intake piping and found oil, put not that much. there were no large puddles but there was definetly a generous coating of oil. then after taking pictures of the oil i noticed that there is metal sprinkles in the hot pipe, tons.
-i checked the shaft play and it feel like the shaft could be pulled out.
- it is hard to turn counter clock wise. im gonna see if i can get a video up of me messing with the shaft.
-compression is 200 all around with cylider 2 at 205.

k i made some vids. the smoke seems white mostly. im gonna host the vids in a minute.
 

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Metal shavings in the turbo outlet, is a fair indication of a bad turbo. So, the turbo is probably toast just as you said. However, the smoke and air coming out of the PCV pipe at idle is most likely leaking past the rings. About the only test to determine whether that smoke and air is blow by, or exhaust coming back through the turbine seal, is a good cylinder leakage test.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
well heres an update. i opened up the intake again and this time i noticed metal shaving in the actual intake before the turbo. i believe that it is coming from bov. because the pipe coming from it has metal shavings as well. here is a vid of the turbine movement, and some pics of stuff. so there should not be air coming out of the pcv during idle? i though that thats is what it is there for.





^this is my intake piping.

heres a vid of my shaft play

http://media.putfile.com/Boam-Car-116534
 
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