MR2 Owners Club Forum banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I finally got underneath my car yesterday (first time in over a month, I hate not having a garage) I confirmed that the terrible creaking noise I've been hearing is indeed the front engine mount. I forgot to take pictures, but I am happy to see that the engine mount is still intact, there is just a seam tear on the passenger side of the front mount. I'm not really surprised, since this chassis has 372,000 miles on it, I've been using Kirk's mounts for over a year (about 30k miles NA and about 3k SC), and I have had the GZE running in it since July.


I've compiled a list of the threads I could find on the subject for future reference. Please inform me if there are others, these are all I was able to find via searching. I will also make sure to find and bring my digital camera later this week when I get under the car again.

Update: See post #26 for my front mount repair.


not12listen
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=161384

sikMR2
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=107761

filonin_2
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=281167
(post 38)

ArmandoP
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?p=3863462

kramerbuccs24
http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=397626
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Fortunately, our FSAE team's welder (hell of a tig welder, he's done our last three thin-wall chromoly tube chassis) who graduated this term will be around for another month before moving for work. He said he would spend some time under the car with me later this week for a sandwich. We have a private loading dock outside our SAE shop, so I have room to work, all the sheet metal tools I need, lots of steel sheet, a killer TIG welder, and most importantly time to do it. (Unfortunately it will be freaking cold all week and we can't work during business hours.)

I would like some suggestions from you guys who have experience here. Since the mount is just beginning to tear, I don't want to take out the threaded piece, I just want to reinforce it. If I cut a sheet of steel to just weld flat on to the bottom (thus moving the bolted-on portion down by the thickness of the sheet, which shouldn't be an issue), do you think that would that be a good enough solution? (in addition to welding directly over the tear.) I was also thinking about boxing the sides of the mount, but that doesn't seem to be a weak point, it seems like the bottom surface of that stamped piece is the only part that breaks free. Furthermore, how can I keep the top surface of the new sheet from corroding? I can't paint all of it before welding and the inner surface will likely be somehow exposed to the atmosphere. I can tackle this problem once I get in there i think, using some creative spray can work :p but we'll see.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,115 Posts
I haven't experienced this on my car... yet, but what you propose, sounds good. Eastwood sells a weld through primer that you could use for the inside. I think most welding shops have it too.
 

·
Thailand rules!
Joined
·
6,838 Posts
My personal opinion on this is that these steel mount pionts are tearing when the stiff mounts are in the front and rear and not at all 4 mount points. As Papoj has already noted, the eninge will lift from the right side during acceleration. This leads to a twisting motion on the front and rear mounts, flexes the steel and causes it to crack.

I'd REALLY like to see if Kirk could make a set of inserts for the side mounts. If those were readily available, I'd abandon my project to get a full set of replacement mounts made in poly.

Also, with firm side mounts, the correct engine weight distribution would be restored, and it would be easier on the half shafts as well.
 

·
Ontario's first MK1.5,'05
Joined
·
5,126 Posts
in my 89 mk1.5 i have tried the solid mounts front and rear and i hated them. They were way, way too harsh. I've been using Kirks inserts for a few years. I have torn the front chassis mount last year. At the same time i tore out the rear mount out of the tranny. This was on the drag strip with 305rwhp with the torque at 281 at the wheels so i knew it would happen sooner than later.

The way i see it is best is to use Kirks inserts front and rear. If the front chassis mount goes bad just fix it and make it stronger. That is a weak point from the factory. I've seen them go bad on stock n/a cars too.



My 85 daily has the stock mounts. They are in good shape but i can feel the movement of the drivetrain and i would not drive it at track speeds like that.


Martin
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,238 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
mcm95403 said:
My personal opinion on this is that these steel mount pionts are tearing when the stiff mounts are in the front and rear and not at all 4 mount points. As Papoj has already noted, the eninge will lift from the right side during acceleration. This leads to a twisting motion on the front and rear mounts, flexes the steel and causes it to crack.

I'd REALLY like to see if Kirk could make a set of inserts for the side mounts. If those were readily available, I'd abandon my project to get a full set of replacement mounts made in poly.

Also, with firm side mounts, the correct engine weight distribution would be restored, and it would be easier on the half shafts as well.
I will finally be getting to the dyno I think next month so I'm eager to get to see what engine movement there is under load.

I am still skeptical of that claim. Even if there is some sort of torque applied around the vehicle centerline axis (which can't be transmitted from the axles, so where would it come from?) consider how much the engine can possibly twist from side to side. Even if there is say a full inch of movement at the side engine mount, how much movement does that translate to at the centerline of the car? Almost nothing, and any twist will be applied to the engine mount's rubber through the through-bolt. Even with Kirk's mounts there will be such a small torque reaction to the actual bolted joint that it couldn't possibly be significant. You could probably twist the bolt through the engine mount that much by hand. That idea just doesn't make any sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,229 Posts
bentheswift said:
I would like some suggestions from you guys who have experience here.
ok, i've gone through this already. make sure you have really good protective gear!!! wear the leathers! wear a welder's hat under the helmet!
bentheswift said:
If I cut a sheet of steel to just weld flat on to the bottom (thus moving the bolted-on portion down by the thickness of the sheet, which shouldn't be an issue), do you think that would that be a good enough solution? (in addition to welding directly over the tear.)
i though this too, then i figured a way i could slide some steel under the cracking and then welded it through the cracks and such until i was satisfied.
the other thing i was thinking was to completely re-engineer the mount and use some serious overkill mount. but, that's just me :thumbup
bentheswift said:
the bottom surface of that stamped piece is the only part that breaks free.
yup, exactly.
bentheswift said:
I can't paint all of it before welding and the inner surface will likely be somehow exposed to the atmosphere.
actually there is a spray (can't remember what it is called) that you can use before welding that is perfect for this. you can find it at a welding supply shop. that's where i got mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,210 Posts
bentheswift said:
If I cut a sheet of steel to just weld flat on to the bottom (thus moving the bolted-on portion down by the thickness of the sheet, which shouldn't be an issue), do you think that would that be a good enough solution? (in addition to welding directly over the tear.) I was also thinking about boxing the sides of the mount, but that doesn't seem to be a weak point, it seems like the bottom surface of that stamped piece is the only part that breaks free.
this is what i was planing on making when my motor mount fails. it would be welded onto the mount and the bolts would go through the two holes in the plate and bolt up to the stock mounting nuts on the inside of the mount. (its not the best drawing so its just to be used as a example)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,210 Posts
ya, i was bored and thought i would make a design of what i wanted to make, but it isn't proportioned right. just a idea.


Edit: :fluffy: 1,300th post :fluffy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,551 Posts
mcm95403 said:
My personal opinion on this is that these steel mount pionts are tearing when the stiff mounts are in the front and rear and not at all 4 mount points. As Papoj has already noted, the eninge will lift from the right side during acceleration. This leads to a twisting motion on the front and rear mounts, flexes the steel and causes it to crack.

I'd REALLY like to see if Kirk could make a set of inserts for the side mounts. If those were readily available, I'd abandon my project to get a full set of replacement mounts made in poly.

Also, with firm side mounts, the correct engine weight distribution would be restored, and it would be easier on the half shafts as well.
Funny story:

I got inserts from Kirk for my 85.

Took them to my firestone and asked them to pop them on there when I was having other work done.
When I went to pick up the car, the tech had put one of the mounts in the front but the back mount on the early 85, have a different config, and Kirk had given me the later insert.

The tech figured it must go on the side so he crammed it in the side passenger mount instead.
When I picked the 2 ,up he was telling me what a pain that side mount was to put in and he had to shave it a bit (it still isnt totally flush) but he got it. I said "What side mount?"

When I called Kirk, and told him the back wouldnt fit, he said, Oh man, you have the 85 I forgot... and when I told him that I now got one side and one front... he happened to have an entire drivers side mount with insert from his prototyping he offered me.

so I picked up a mount he had for the drivers side which had an insert in it and also got the proper back mount and got those put in as well.

So end of the story is that I have kirks inserts on all four of my mounts as you mentioned. Its like a rock and the engine doesnt move when I throttle it. It does have some extra noise inside cabin- especially at around 3300-3800 RPM but its not a family car, anyway. :smile:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
superpilun said:
You guys and your polyurethane mounts...hahaha. Different does not always mean better.
Lol. Everyone always seems so gun-ho about upgrading to polyurethane mounts, but do you guys realize that the rubber mounts you have now are over 20 years old. Just replacing all of your mounts with new oem ones will probably feel like a world of difference, while also allowing some more movement compared to the polyurethane mounts. Making them as stiff as you can isn't always the best route, I would think some movement is good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,490 Posts
I did something similar to what Mk1noob has. Except mine has a raised section in the front as well as the sides. Basically, cut out a "t" shape with
a cut-off tool on 1/8" steel. Scored the ends to make it easier to bend. Bent it up in place, and then MIG welded everything in, including the score lines. A friend with more metal working experience than me helped me out.

Truth is, the repair was far less sensitive than I expected. We shimmed the back-end with some large fender washers to account for the dip in the frame. Lining up the rear hole is no big deal because if you are off, you can just oversize the hole a little and use a washer. The front hole is more critical, but not that hard because you can drill the hole, weld the nut in, and then center it on the car before folding up the sides. Lowering the mount isn't that big of a deal because the bracket has a long slot in it to allow the mount to be repositioned slightly.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top