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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
from bean
Gotime I have to fight you on this one.
A purge kit gets all the air out of the line, all the way to the solenoid. If you do not have a purge kit or manually purge before every run you will be injecting just raw fuel until the nitrous comes up the feed line. I purge before every use. A purge kit is a good idea. And you are not wasting anything but air in the lines. You want nitrous and fuel both at the same place ready to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
from sallystrothers
I guess I will chime in here. The Venom kit is a dry kit, but works a little different. It controls the injector duty ccle. Now you can only safely increase the injector duty by 10-15%, so that means you can only increase total power by 10-15% (20-30 shot). A proven method of a 100+ shot for me is the NOS direct port kit controlled by the NOS progressive controller.

As for the purge kit..... you guys are both wrong .

The purge kit purges out the gaseous nitrous from the line. But it still is nitrous none the less. The gaseous nitrous is much less dense than liquid, so it basically is the same as flowing air and a crap load of extra fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
from bean
We are both right!
You are at the races watching the racers staging and in an instant you hear the sound that strikes fear into most racers. This is the sound of nitrous purging. The NOS Purge Kit is used to release trapped air or gaseous nitrous from the feed line(s). This helps to ensure consistent performance from your NOS nitrous system.
This is straight from the NOS web site.
Gotime stop crying.
One more note i would like to see more pics of installed systems.
Next i will cover how to hide the bottle from the enemy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
from sallystrothers
Ok you got me, I will say.

I already have a wet direct port kit, what I am going to do next is integrate a 2nd dry stage with it. The nitrous entrance point for the 2nd stage will be before the intercooler for maximum intercooling. Then a bleed orafice with a line to the fuel pressure regulator from a compressed air canister at a designed pressure for exact fuel pressure.

So first stage (100 shot wet direct port) kicks in at 3500 RPM, then at 5000 RPM stage 2 (40 shot dry) kicks in till redline. But the only thing I don't like about this is too many moving parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
from jeremy
how much does the bottle weigh?
Wt. of Cyl & Gas: 33.5 LB
Wt. of Cyl: 18.5 LB
Wt. of Gas: 15.0 LB (duh!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
jetting from NX
I have listed the jetting below.

HP N20 Fuel
35 31 18
50 35 20
75 41 24
This is from Michael Smith at "nitrous express"
The fuel/nitrous jet numbers is for "NX",fuel injected,40 psi fuel pressure.(our mr2's)
Do not use the above numbers for any other kit!
James
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
from icyjaws
since the amount of fuel and n2o is olny changed by the pressure, temp. and nozzel size, why would this be for NX kits only? I know that diff manufacters do give slightly diff size for each HP rating. But i was told that it was because some give the rating at the flywheel and some at the ground. Also what does the size actually stand for? I mean is a 35 actually 0.035 in diameter/radius or what?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
from bean
icyjaws, calibration is key here. my nitrous works kit is designed to operate at 1000 psi from the factory. any less bottle pressure and im rich,and more bottle pressure and im lean. all the company's calibrate their systems to run at different pressures, like 900,950. some kits may have lower flowing solenoids and valves so they adjust the jets size and bottle pressure requirements to meet/match a desired shot.and you are right on the jet size a 42,means the orfice is 42 thousands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
from icyjaws
so since the nozzle sizes are in 1000ths we should be able to calcuate a table based on bottle pressure and say 40 psi fuel pressure to figure out what size nozzles to be using for what pressure. Also could get real tricky and use bottle temps. hmm don't think i want to do that much thermo. The mass ratio for n20 to fuel is like 6:1 right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
from nitrous works and bean
Jet Chart for 13092 Nitrous Kit

HP Level N2O Jet Fuel Jet Fuel PSI
25 24 18 40
50 34 26 40
60 39 29 40
70 43 31 40
100 55 33 40


Thank you

Tech @ Barry Grant, Inc.

BG Fuel Systems, Demon Carburetion, Nitrous Works, & Rush Performance Filters

1450 McDonald Rd.
Dahlonega, GA 30533
Phone (706) 864-8544
Fax (706) 864-2206

Tech M-F 8AM to 6PM EST


As you guys can see there is different size jets for the same horsepower levels.
"NOS" N2O 35 FUEL 20 = 50 SHOT
"NW" N2O 34 FUEL 26= 50 SHOT
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
from alza
like dmitri, I to want to know how much a 50 wet shot will affect the compression ratio in our engine under full boost. I have been considering the use of nitrous for a while now but me and dmitri had a talk about the extra stress it will put on the engine versus just going to a bigger turbo. I would plan to do 23psi + the 50 wet probably only in 3rd and 4th gear. I know certain EMS's can control nitrous injection, and I will have the AEM as soon as it comes out. How exactly does the EMS go about controlling the nitrous?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
from bean
alza,yes the compression ratio will raise with nitrous but, like i said before boost is a by product of nitrous so, i if you shoot a 50 or raise boost 3 psi the compression ratio is the same. you are going to get more boost but its your pick of where it comes from. if you are boosting 20 psi with a tdo6 and want to turn it up to 23 psi (all turbo), you are now at 23 psi and more hot air,now flip it stay at 20 psi and shoot a 50, wham you got your 23 psi but its a lot colder than making it on the turbo alone. the beny's of fighting ping and still making power will help keep your invesment together. in short boost loves nitrous due to its cooling action. i will be heading to the dyno soon to show the board how much power a 70 shot makes at 18 psi. i will do two runs 1 on the bottle and 1 off the bottle, so we can say with proof that a 70 shot on a mr2 makes 875 rwhp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
from alza
Bean, on a wet nitrous setup wouldnt the water mix with the gasoline and have some negative effects?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
from bean
This is the return e-mail i got from aquamist.uk Hello Barron,

There is only plus point of water injecting a nitrous engine, it will aid
in-cylinder cooling as well as suppressing detonation.

One thing you need to watch out is to introduce a water/alcohol mixed
solution so that the water does not freeze your throttle plate open. 50%
methanol mix is normally used.

Regards
Richard Lamb
[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
from bean
this is a return e-mail from barry grant (nitrous works) James

Water injection was used in years past to help with detonation, with
todays products it's generally not used anymore since it will cost you more HP,
and will actually not be as safe as a properly set up system without it.

Thank you

Tech @ Barry Grant, Inc.

BG Fuel Systems, Demon Carburetion, Nitrous Works, & Rush Performance Filters

1450 McDonald Rd.
Dahlonega, GA 30533
Phone (706) 864-8544
Fax (706) 864-2206

Tech M-F 8AM to 6PM EST

you guys be the judge. water injection is loved very much on this board but,many people have it just because other people have it. the board is a big band wagon if you will,its easy to follow others but its had to set your self apart from the mainstream. just look at the ct20b thing, a few guys got them then the board blew up with post regarding how do i get a ct20b,then it faded quick and now its all about bb turbos. this is beans thing water injection lowers intake temps to aid in fighting ping, well n2o lower's intake temps too. in my case i would just retard timing a few degrees to fight ping vs a 500.00 water sprayer. now if you are full race,30 psi,and a welded head then h2o injection would come into play,but most of us are not in that league. so if you want it get it,if you think it will help get it, but if you are not pinging why spend the money.and remember race gas is the best at fighting ping. so low boost with daily driving,race gas and high boost when racing. heck i had to turn down my boost to 7 psi for daily driving because of gas prices, now do i really need water shooting down my intake at 7 psi? no. well thats all for now,talk to you later.....bean
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
from sallystrothers
I don't think it is necessary to run water injection the same time as nitrous. Nitrous actually is a better buffer agent than water anyway (not only does it absorb energy when it vaporizes but also when it decomposes into nitrogen and oxygen). Water injection would essentially be pointless while on the bottle. I have a water injection system that out performs any other on the market, and it is all custom made and less than $200. It is all mapped and controlled by laptop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
from joel
But one important, and I mean IMPORTANT thing to install along with a nitrous kit is a window switch. MSD makes them but I'm not sure what other companies do. The window switch is RPM activated so that the nitrous will only be injected between certain RPM levels. Normal nitrous kits have a wide open throttle switch, but also use the window switch. You CANNOT over rev, free rev, inject too soon, etc. and blow your engine with a window switch that is PROPERLY adjusted.

If you do not have a window switch and decide to squeeze while you are trying to make a record run, and BAM, you powershift into 3rd, grind the gears while still having the pedal to the medal and tap the rev limiter, your engine will probably suffer severe damage. Spraying nitrous while revving is VERY bad. Spraying nitrous while revving, missing a gear and hitting rev limiter is catastrophic! Easily done while missing one powershift. It happens! Powershifting is bad, but improves time by a good amount, especially on turbo cars since powershifting completely eliminates boost lag after shifts. MSD Window switch - ~$100. Don't go cheap on doing the nitrous mod right. Hell, even with the extra $100 nitrous is still very easily the best bang for the buck other than a simple ball-spring MBC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
from bean
You do not want to hit n2o under 3000 rpm's,or bounce off the rev limiter. For some a window switch is a good idea. This is how most should be using n2o, pull to staging line,light the second bulb,purge,1st gear slipping the clutch out of the hole,hit 2nd gear bring the revs over 2k,at full throttle activate the system,let off going 3rd and 4th. And at the very end of the run keep the car at full throttle without nitrous to get rid of any left over fuel.Thanks for the input joel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
from bean
it depends on how your system is set up,like mine i have a switch on my shifter so my thumb controls the nitrous and im not pushing the button until after im in gear. as for tapping the rev limiter my autometer shift light is set at 6800,so im off the bottle before redline. i will say there is alot going on during a drag race and any item that makes your race safer with less stuff to do is a good idea. but you do not want to over do it either,in my 944 i had a tach recall box from summit and it had to be activaded seconds before launching but there was toooo much stuff going on to use it with good results due to staging and watching the lights and launching. you do want your hands on tyhe wheel. just think if you throw a line lock,purge,and comm into the mix,it's alot to do. james
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
from bullwinkle
Bean,

Cheers for taking the time to post this FAQ.

I was wondering if i could ask some specfic questions, which i dont think have been answered.

I am really interested in running nitrous on my car. The problem is with the majority of nitrous tuners in the UK take one line when it comes to fitting this to a turbo'ed car. Dont run higher boost, just run nitrous. Now this dosnt appeal as 95% of the time i wouldnt be on the giggle gas and hence the performance of my car wouldnt be as i wanted it to be.

Now i fully understand what you are saying about nitrous acting as a charge cooler so essentially you could run less boost and make more power with the gas. But that only applies when the gas is on.

Your imput on the following is greatly appreciated...

My idea was to install an EBC which would allow me to swap between boost settings. Essentially i could run my turbo at its maximum Psi for road and track use. When the gas isnt on then i wouldnt be loosing power from having to run a lower boost setting. This would then mean that when i drag race at the track i could drop the EBC to operate a lower boost level which would allow me to run the nitorus safely without worries.

Firstly can this be done with EBC's and also could it be done on the fly.

My car currently makes just under 300 BHP with only minimal mods (Rev3 - Intake, DP, Exhaust, Increased boost) and i fully intend to build the engine up further later on down the line.

So what i proposing would be to run on the road at say 18psi and then drop the boost to 16 psi when running nitrous, which would hopefully account for the boost increase i get from the nitrous. Or is my logic flawed ... more than likley knowing me

I really want a nitrous kit for my Turbo but i want a system that means i can keep my car in peak performance for the road and then switch it over to be a drag strip monster.

I have to look to you guys in the Us as the UK based tuners dont really seem all to clued up on the subject.

Kind regards

James
 
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