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Wish I had seen this earlier

I happened upon this thread completely by accident and boy am I glad I did. Steve must be the one who has posted a lot of the comments, which I have seen elsewhere, regarding dumping the front bar, using higher front spring rates, using extremely stiff front strut adjustments, etc. that I used to think were a bit crazy, to put it mildly. I'm sure I probably made one or two negative comments regarding them, which I apologize for. After having read the entirety of Part I & II, I can see exactly what he meant, which as it turns out is somewhat like what I have done (but differently).
For whatever reason, I had never quite grasped the rough equality of high front springs rates to low front spring rates + sway bar. It all makes sense now and I applaud Steve's work on the issue and taking the time to post all of the explanations that he has. I would really like to hear what he has to say regarding struts. :notworthy
Part I & II of this thread should be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to properly set up their MR2.
That being said, I may never go that way myself, simply because my car will always be primarily used on the street and I am not sure I want to deal with the heads or tails coin sensitivity, which such high front spring rates can produce. Other than that though, I can fully attest to the superior attributes of what he has described, only done to what is perhaps a lower standard by using a front sway bar and lower spring rates. I?ll definitely be referring to all of the info contained here as I work on my SC project.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
You know it's funny but I sometimes drive my Auto-X car to work just for the heck of it. 53 miles each way on mostly back roads. I don't have an issue at all.
 

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Shocks really have a bigger influence on ride quality that springs. That's why I use springs instead of shocks to tune the car's handling balance.

Yes, 700 lbs/in front springs would make the car ride pretty darn firm, but stiffer shocks would likely feel more harsh.

-Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Steve. I threw 350's on the back just to test em out....car is sooo planted it's not even funny. Only issue is on the tighter courses I can lift the inside front wheel :) So not optimal yet but damn does it feel better.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
OMG the car feels fantastic. As long as you maintain the tires (heat,pressure) the car can almost be tossed full steam into corners and it will take it and want some more.

Ian (Squirel) Baker drove the car yesterday, got within .6 of his time in the CRX (that thing is nasty seriously) and said that he had to do alot less braking in the MR2 then in the CRX. Just toss and pray :)
 

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I know Ian and his CRX. Ians a good driver and the car is well prepared. If he can get to within .6 of his own car in just a few runs in yours, that's impressive. So we have made great progress and now have the car within reach of the front of the class. :thumbup

I would have to assume that the drop in rear spring rate and corresponding improvement is a counter to the lack of roll axis inclination that the Mk1 has.

-Steve
 

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XHead said:
Shocks really have a bigger influence on ride quality that springs. That's why I use springs instead of shocks to tune the car's handling balance.

Yes, 700 lbs/in front springs would make the car ride pretty darn firm, but stiffer shocks would likely feel more harsh.

-Steve
to back this statement up:

my car rides better with double the spring rate and appropriate damping in CSP than it did with stock springs and CS race specific damping.

the perception of ride quality created by using damping to stiffen the car is one where driving even on relatively smooth roads seems to feel "rough" but feel relatively cushy over those rare big bumps.

with stiff enough springs to run reasonable damping, the feeling is a almost stock like cushy ride over the small bumps, and a quicker, much harsher impact over bigger bumps.

guess which one makes you remember the ride as "harsh"? The problem for me on the street is that the stiffer the ride rate, the smaller the bump that makes the stiff suspension feel harsh....
 

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Discussion Starter #48
XHead said:
I know Ian and his CRX. Ians a good driver and the car is well prepared. If he can get to within .6 of his own car in just a few runs in yours, that's impressive. So we have made great progress and now have the car within reach of the front of the class. :thumbup

I would have to assume that the drop in rear spring rate and corresponding improvement is a counter to the lack of roll axis inclination that the Mk1 has.

-Steve
Now all I have to do is learn how to drive :) That will come back. My wife beat me at the last auto-x, she loves how the car feels also.

Yeah I'm going to shed a little legal and unwanted weight from the car durring the winter, make sure the damn hand break cables are new and not half war frozen and a clutch should help also.

I'm as happy as a piggy in a mud hut.
 

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Yes, very good info.. These 2 threads are at least putting me in a direction - before I knew I needed to do something, but wasn't sure where to start. The funny thing is I went from applying this to my CSP car, to going all out and building the car for DP :D
 

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600 front 400 rear. im gonna have to order more springs soon so i can start to dial it in though. im going to start with koni sports for budget purposes, then get a better setup going when i buy another street mr2 to swap the konis to.
 

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zipty842 said:
600 front 400 rear. im gonna have to order more springs soon so i can start to dial it in though. im going to start with koni sports for budget purposes, then get a better setup going when i buy another street mr2 to swap the konis to.
You might consider going with 600f / 350r. If you read the last few posts above you will see that the subject car was better with the 350 rears. That's going to be the results of the rear roll center being above the front.

-Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #56 (Edited)
XHead said:
You might consider going with 600f / 350r. If you read the last few posts above you will see that the subject car was better with the 350 rears. That's going to be the results of the rear roll center being above the front.

-Steve
The only issue that I have with the 350's in the rear is that the front gets lifted up....which sucks if I brake in a corner as the front understeers. But I might just need to learn how to drive better :)

Anyway, plans for next year.

1. About 3 - 3.5 rear negative camber with 2-2.5 front camber.

2. Some 949Racing 15x7.5 wheels with some 225/45/15's...which ever ones are good after rich people test them out for me :angel: .

3. Depending on how the camber works out for me I might go back to the 400lb springs again, but we shall see.

4. Clutch, so that I can launch the car again.

5. Lighten up the car as much as I can. We shall see what else I can replace and get rid of.
 

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I've been looking at some 13" exospeed wheels if I ever get the money.
Apparently they fit over the 88 brakes, and will take a 235/45/13
 

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Hey guys,

First of all thank you Steve for such insightfull information. Im seriously blown away. Im in the process of setting up my auto x mr2 SC for next season. After reading and sitting on your great info, I called up my local race shop for pricing.

What I run:
MR2 SC (166whp ... pulley...)
Just did all the suspension bushings with urathane
Koni yellows
Toyo RA-1's

So on the above, I tried to order 600/400... The guy was good enough to call koni and check the capability of yellow inserts... Apperently 350 is the upper limit of the dampener.

Plus, it looks like I should probably go lower anyways because of my tires. Does this sound about right to you? I was thinking of doing some spring combinations and trying it out... I was thinking 300, 350, 450 and 525. Both Lee Grimes (of koni) and Peter Mills (of markor) think I should try 300 300. They say they think that the 150% stager will push...

Just wanted to know your oppinion. Im more inclined to agree with your descisions, seeing as you win... a lot... with an mr2.

Thanks again for the awesome installments!

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #59
Go for the setup that I have is you aren't using sways. If you are using sways then you can fudge some of the numbers a bit.

350 is the upper limit on koni's? Weird because from what i've seen 550 is at the top their range on my car. 600's that I have is pushing it a bit but they still work :)
 

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Nolat said:
Plus, it looks like I should probably go lower anyways because of my tires. Does this sound about right to you? I was thinking of doing some spring combinations and trying it out... I was thinking 300, 350, 450 and 525. Both Lee Grimes (of koni) and Peter Mills (of markor) think I should try 300 300. They say they think that the 150% stager will push...
Hi Tim, glad you liked the tutorial. I know Lee. Lee knows shocks, not setup.

Skip the other rates and go straight to 600/350 F/R. The yellows will work reasonably well with those rates. It will NOT push. The Toyos will work fine with this setup. The Potenzas that were used by our subject car have less grip. If anything, you may want to go stiffer.

-Steve
 
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