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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, im starting my gen 3.5 swap into my alltrac, and I thought I would share with all of you some of the specific differences between the gen 4 and gen 2 block. Next week the gen 4 block will be going to the machine shop to get a makeover and some new holes :)

The two blocks side by side gen II on the right gen 4 on the left:



The Gen II block has a coolant nipple here:

The Gen4 does not:
 

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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The Gen II has a different size turbo feed line and the that big hole is drilled and tapped:

The Gen4:



The oil cooler location is significantly different, these next two pictures show quite a few differences. The oil cooler mounting holes are only on the genII block. If you look to the right of the oil cooler location, you will notice that there is a coolant nipple on the gen 4 block, and the genII doesnt... Also if you look really really closely you will see that the gen 4 block has threads the whole way down the center hole of the oil cooler location. but the genII block is bored smooth in the hole.
The GenII:

The Gen4:
 

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It's definitely interesting. I want to use a gen4 block with a gen3 head for my next motor build, but I can't source a cheap caldina block.
 

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rcracin said:
It's definitely interesting. I want to use a gen4 block with a gen3 head for my next motor build, but I can't source a cheap caldina block.
Try looking for a Rav4 in the junkyard...
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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Looks good, except for the AEM, not a fan of the old style boxes, the new V2 kit that just came out looks ok though.
 

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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That gen IV block you saw is currently at the machine shop getting hot tanked, decked, and bored to 86.5. Its also having a few things done to the oil cooler area so that I can run a genIII oil cooler. For those of you who may be wondering, the GenIV oil cooler sucks in comparison to the gen III, The genIV is much smaller, and does not use the spacer just like the oil cooled 3sge motors. Also it sucks because when you buy a block from a guy who spun a rod bearing, the gen IV oil cooler is impossible to find in good shape...
 

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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Texas_Ace said:
Looks good, except for the AEM, not a fan of the old style boxes, the new V2 kit that just came out looks ok though.
meh, ive got an alltrac its going to be hidden anyways... and the only real problem with the 1st generation ones other than being ugly was knock control... hence the J&S...
 

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^Actually the problem was hardware failures. I.e. chips coming loose and causing problems. Lots of details on supraforums about AEM v1 failures. Then again, maybe yours will run fine and never have a problem.
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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lumbercis said:
^Actually the problem was hardware failures. I.e. chips coming loose and causing problems. Lots of details on supraforums about AEM v1 failures. Then again, maybe yours will run fine and never have a problem.
Yep, exactly, i could care less what the box itself looks like, i just know i have had some very annoying problems with my box and i have had a "good" box compared to many.

Quality control on these SUCKS which is the biggest problem. Sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you don't. I have heard and experienced enough problems myself i would never buy a new V1 box ever again for any car.

The new V2 is supposed to be much better, and cheaper too boot.
 

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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
would resoldering the connections fix these issues? or would replacing the components inside with better ones be more prudent? I repair high end electronics on the side (iphones, LCD televisions etc) and have no qualms about rebuilding the motherboard... I imagine that the chips themselves arent too bad, but that it is possible that many of the electronic components inside may be inferior (capacitors, resistors etc). From about 2001 through 2008 alot of consumer electronics were plagued with counterfeit components. I dont really have the cash right now to buy another EMS, and would really like this one to just work. Any thoughts?
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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l0ch0w said:
would resoldering the connections fix these issues? or would replacing the components inside with better ones be more prudent? I repair high end electronics on the side (iphones, LCD televisions etc) and have no qualms about rebuilding the motherboard... I imagine that the chips themselves arent too bad, but that it is possible that many of the electronic components inside may be inferior (capacitors, resistors etc). From about 2001 through 2008 alot of consumer electronics were plagued with counterfeit components. I dont really have the cash right now to buy another EMS, and would really like this one to just work. Any thoughts?
If you know what your doing i am sure it would not hurt, i know at least some of the problems are due to bad connections on the board.

Although might want to see if you have any issues first then do that unless you just feeling doing it.
 

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I don't think the V1 box is as bad as you make it out to be. There are a lot of those boxes in use without any problems. I've used two separate V1 boxes without any issues and know a lot of people that have used them on other platforms. I think he'll be fine.
 

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rcracin said:
I don't think the V1 box is as bad as you make it out to be. There are a lot of those boxes in use without any problems. I've used two separate V1 boxes without any issues and know a lot of people that have used them on other platforms. I think he'll be fine.
Like i said, it is a gamble, sometimes you get a good one, others you don't.

I have heard an equal amount of both stories which is too much for me with something so important.

My box lucky has only had some minor issues that would cause a problem but i could still drive the car, i have heard of others that the car won't even start.
 

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1991 Celica Alltrac
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
the thing is that they dont make a pnp v2 for the 3sgte... so im not sure how you would go about doing a v2 swap... Also I feel like you are making it out like half of all the boxes out there are messed up. Would it be closer to the truth that alot were sold some had a problem, and because so many were sold it seems like alot of them have problems?
 

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l0ch0w said:
That gen IV block you saw is currently at the machine shop getting hot tanked, decked, and bored to 86.5. Its also having a few things done to the oil cooler area so that I can run a genIII oil cooler. For those of you who may be wondering, the GenIV oil cooler sucks in comparison to the gen III, The genIV is much smaller, and does not use the spacer just like the oil cooled 3sge motors. Also it sucks because when you buy a block from a guy who spun a rod bearing, the gen IV oil cooler is impossible to find in good shape...
The oil cooler isn't really any worse on a gen4...only reason it "looks" small is because it is split into 2 parts...the other half is part of the oil pump...where as the gen3 is a bigger unit but does not incorporate a second half with the oil pump. So really they are no different as far as capacity goes.
 
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