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REV 3 3SGE SW20 - Running super rich but runs great

186 Views 6 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  Jspidle
Hi,

I don't really know how else to describe this, below is a massive long ramble about my car, if anybody has any ideas where to go from here to get the fueling better it would be highly appreciated, I cant really say "to get it to run better" because as far as I am concerned, it runs fantastic.. just the ye olde emissions test ruining my life so car will never be road legal.

I have a 1994 MR2 SW20 Jap import with the N/A 3SGE engine.

It starts and runs great, loads of power and never any misfires or anything.

It is certainly running rich, its had a new exhaust from the manifold back (so the pipe from manifold with the flexi piece)
New catalytic converter
New back box

Cant feel or see any leaks from the exhaust system.

I replaced the o2 sensor awhile ago, about 2 years ago, proper denso one, I have a second one I could install though.

Pretty much completely stock, I just installed a silicone hose kit and replaced pretty much all the vacuum lines I could see.

No leaks on the intake I can find, about 2-3 years ago I rebuild the intake throttle valve thing along with the cold start valve, so im pretty sure nothing is stuck open or closed in that aspect. Its only done about 1000km in the past 3-4 years ive owned it since ive never been able to get it to pass an emissions test...

Coolant is ok - im working on getting rid of all the leaks, just got a brand new radiator and full silicone hose kit. Car gets up to temperature kinda - it gets like 1/3 the way up the gauge but when you go WOT while on a run - the temp drops - I replaced the thermostat with a Gates one which I believed would be a good brand but ive just ordered a genuine thermostat from Toyota so will install that when it arrives. Regardless of the coolant temp dropping, it does get up to some kind of temp that the car is happy with as I can hear the fans turning on and off by themselves.

Car had A/C from new, no longer has any of the system left as it was removed by a previous owner. I have deleted the VSV for the ac system from the engine bay. I have bridged the A/C pressure switch so the cooling fans dont run full blast - this only works if the blower fans are turned off in the car - so if the blower fans are off, the rad fans will cycle on and off in their low speed mode. When the blower fan is on, the car just runs the rad fans at full speed...

Its got clean oil, air filter, plugs (good NGK iridium ones that I did gap before I put them in), didn't bother to replace the wires as they all checked out fine, distributor cap and rotor replaced.

Don't think it has any problems with the injectors as the car never billows out black smoke or anything, come to think of it, it has actually never had any smoke of any kind come out of the exhaust apart from slightly smelly exhaust gas.

Don't think it has any problems with the head gasket as there is no oil contamination or white smoke from exhaust to indicate burning coolant.

I measured the VF1 and E1 ports on the diagnostic with the car running at its own decided "operating temperature", comes up as 0.03v so car is pulling back fueling significantly (if im doing this test right)

Dont really know how to go about checking the timing, as far as I know you need a timing light and you just look at the timing belt with the car in some kind of diagnostic mode.

I feel like I can hear a vacuum leak when its running but I cant find one no matter how much WD40 I spray around the engine bay, I think if it was a vacuum leak it would be a lean condition though?
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These engines are tuned the best. They do run a bit rich at low RPM and then again at high RPM.it is the way Toyota tuned them and because the JDM cars never had to pass emissions testing like other places did they were never set up to pass them.

What is the test that you need to pass and in what country? We don't have any testing for emissions in NZ except for maybe a visual smoke test so I don't know anything about them. All I know is if it is not a USDM or Euro version of the engine then it hasn't got EGR or 2x cats to reduce the amount of bad gases coming out.

I went to the dyno yesterday with 3 different JDM 3SGE engines and all ran rich at low RPM then fine mid range then high RPM rich again.
These engines are tuned the best. They do run a bit rich at low RPM and then again at high RPM.it is the way Toyota tuned them and because the JDM cars never had to pass emissions testing like other places did they were never set up to pass them.

What is the test that you need to pass and in what country? We don't have any testing for emissions in NZ except for maybe a visual smoke test so I don't know anything about them. All I know is if it is not a USDM or Euro version of the engine then it hasn't got EGR or 2x cats to reduce the amount of bad gases coming out.

I went to the dyno yesterday with 3 different JDM 3SGE engines and all ran rich at low RPM then fine mid range then high RPM rich again.
Hi,

Thanks for the reply,

In Ireland we need to pass an NCT, this measures the emissions - Different readings like CO, HC and Lambda that I have put below along with my results:

Engine oil temp : 90c (so it was well warmed up)

Low idle (880rpm) :
CO 5.64% (above 0.5 fail) FAIL -
HC 289 PPM (N/A) - Don't seem to care about this number...
Lambda 0.83 (between 0.97 and 1.03) FAIL

High idle (3030rpm) :
CO 6.42% (above 0.3 fail) FAIL
HC 185 PPM (above 200ppm) PASS

Since measuring VF1 and E1 should give me a rough idea of fuel trims, by getting 0v means that the car knows there is way too much fuel and its backing off fueling as much as electronically possible. Ive got some better manuals now that give me troubleshooting for my exact engine (Rev 3 3SGE)

This car has passed an NCT before I bought it, dated 2017 so it is capable of passing this test. Ive owned the car since 2019 and have never been able to get it to pass but now im determined to have another good go off it.
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Thanks for the outline on the test and results.
Have you replaced ignition components and had the injectors cleaned?

Just because I'm curious. The percentage numbers you have, 5.64% and the number in brackets, 0.5. Is the 0.5 number how much it needs to be? So would the car be 5.14% over?
Thanks for the outline on the test and results.
Have you replaced ignition components and had the injectors cleaned?

Just because I'm curious. The percentage numbers you have, 5.64% and the number in brackets, 0.5. Is the 0.5 number how much it needs to be? So would the car be 5.14% over?
Ive replaced cap, rotor, plugs - leads and ignitor tested out fine and since the car runs so well I dont think there is any issue with them.

Ive ran different injector cleaning solutions with the fuel but never removed them and cleaned, again I considered since the engine doesnt produce excessive smoke or have any problems with power or overall smoothness - it didnt seem necessary to go to the trouble and expense of fuel injectors.

Youre right about the emissions, its 5.14% over, its a huge amount over.
Ive replaced cap, rotor, plugs - leads and ignitor tested out fine and since the car runs so well I dont think there is any issue with them.

Ive ran different injector cleaning solutions with the fuel but never removed them and cleaned, again I considered since the engine doesnt produce excessive smoke or have any problems with power or overall smoothness - it didnt seem necessary to go to the trouble and expense of fuel injectors.

Youre right about the emissions, its 5.14% over, its a huge amount over.
Yeah you've gone and done all the things that you can that seem logical.
That is a huge number over.

Sorry I'm not going to be any help. I was just very curious to know a bit more about it and hopefully the extra information you've provided gives someone an idea on what can be done. Good luck!
Air filter? I know it sounds dumb, but I could really tell at low RPM that my mixture was way rich. Replaced it with a nice clean one and it ran much better.
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