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Discussion Starter #1
ok i have a question about removing the bolts the hold down the cylinder head, i know the order im suppost to take them out but what i dont know is should i loosen them a lil and then take them out or should i take them out right away once they are loose??
 

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If you already have the cams out, it may tell you quite a bit about both the valves and the piston-to-cylinder wall seal if you rotate each piston to BDC and apply air pressure to the spark plug holes.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Byron said:
If you already have the cams out, it may tell you quite a bit about both the valves and the piston-to-cylinder wall seal if you rotate each piston to BDC and apply air pressure to the spark plug holes.
i heard that i dont have to remove the cams to take out the head?
 

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You don't have to, but then you place stress on the head and cams from the cams having some valves open.
 

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I can't answer that. But short cuts hardly ever are worth the time saved. If you are going to clean the head, it would be better to have the cams out anyway. If you just keep up with the caps and loosen each cap a little at a time to release the valve spring pressure, I don't think it will add that much time to your disassembly and reassembly.
 

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I would pull out the cams, your going to have to remove them anyways. And besides its not that hard, just remove the cam cap bolts IN ORDER. separate intake and exhaust bolts and caps. There are little arrows, and numbers on each of them, take note as to which the arrow and numbers go. I believe if memory serves me right the Arrow points Dizzy side -----------> Cam gear side, and the numbers go in decending order from 5 to 1.

Also to you are correct, in that you should remove the head bolts in ORDER, and turn them only a little bit each time you make a pass. Example, take your breaker bar and break loose the number 1 bolt, maybe 1 full turn only. Go on to the number 2,3,4, ect. and do the same. Then make another pass starting at 1 again and turn the ratchet maybe 2 full turns or so. Make one more pass starting at 1 and turn it out all the way and pull it out.

once you remove them, then just lift the head up from the intake manifold and exhaust holes or hoist bracket.

Becarful not to scratch the bottom of the HEAD, or the block for that matter. Good luck its pretty easy. Again just becarful with the head and block surfaces.

If your going to prep the block for a metal gasket, Make sure its SUPER CLEAN, "I mean so clean that you could lick it if you had to LOL"
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Byron said:
I can't answer that. But short cuts hardly ever are worth the time saved. If you are going to clean the head, it would be better to have the cams out anyway. If you just keep up with the caps and loosen each cap a little at a time to release the valve spring pressure, I don't think it will add that much time to your disassembly and reassembly.
what you mean by the caps?? and also when i remove the cams do i got to remove the valve lifters??
 

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Cam caps are the pieces that hold the cam down. Look at Turbolence56's post above. As for the lifters, or buckets, or cam followers, removing them will allow you to clean the oil passages better. If you do remove them, keep them in order so you can put them back in the same spot. A piece of cardboard with crosscuts about the size of the buckets will allow you to push them into the cardboard. If you don't move the cardboard around too much, it will keep them in order. Just make sure to mark the cardboard for exhaust and intake sides and distributor end.
 

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When you initially start lossen the head bolts, you want to release the tension in the bolts evenly and slowly.

People mentioned a full turn to start. I am not expert, but I would go slower at least to start. One can never go too slow, but going too fast could be bad.

I start by cracking each bolt lose, in the BGB-designated order. Then I go back and start the order again taking a 1/4 turn max on each bolt. I keep this up until I can turn the bolts easily with my fingers. At this point, they are free of all tension, and you can pull them the rest of the way out.

I might be too carefull using all the 1/4 turns, but it takes an extra whole 5 minutes, and I have not screwed up a head yet.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Byron said:
Cam caps are the pieces that hold the cam down. Look at Turbolence56's post above. As for the lifters, or buckets, or cam followers, removing them will allow you to clean the oil passages better. If you do remove them, keep them in order so you can put them back in the same spot. A piece of cardboard with crosscuts about the size of the buckets will allow you to push them into the cardboard. If you don't move the cardboard around too much, it will keep them in order. Just make sure to mark the cardboard for exhaust and intake sides and distributor end.
ok but what if i dont want to clean the lifters will they be ok in the head cuz the thing that im trying to do is changing the head gasket.
 

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The stresses won't hurt anything. There are valves open on your car right now sitting in the driveway, and certainly the valve cycling open and shut with the car running is much more stressful.

Take them out if you have to, but if not don't. The more you take apart the more you have to put back together.
 

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I suppose if you keep them in and keep all the shims in place, you could get by. But turning the head up-side-down to really prep the gasket surface well will make it difficult to keep everything together. Maybe someone has a better suggestion for a way to clean the head and keep up with the buckets and shims. Also, it is very difficult to keep gasket material and junk out of the oil holes. It will be hard to make sure all the oil holes are cleaned if you leave the buckets in.
 

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Fourpole said:
The stresses won't hurt anything. There are valves open on your car right now sitting in the driveway, and certainly the valve cycling open and shut with the car running is much more stressful.

Take them out if you have to, but if not don't. The more you take apart the more you have to put back together.
The stress occurs when the head bolts are loosened from the block (which is a very important part of keeping the head flat).
 

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I was refering to the comment about valve spring stresses, not stresses on the head from loosening the nuts. I agree that the nuts should be loosened in increments. I don't think the cams should be removed unless they have to.
 

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Byron. is correct, the stress coming from the head bolts can actually WARP the head when taking it off to fast or cracking the bolts and turning them to far at one time.

I agree I would probably not turn it a full turn like I mentioned in my other post above, maybe just a little I to am VERY VERY anal about working on the head and block. I have a solution for tipping the head over and keeping everything together (valve caps and stuff like that.) Get a towel or big rag and fold it into the shap for the head (basically a rectangle lol) and lay it on top of the valve buckets and stuff. Get some duct tape and tape the towl down kinda like your sealing a cardboard box. This will allow you to lay the head up side down so that you can clean the matting surfaces and oil ports. Then when you are done just flip it back over on another towl, and remove the towl with the tape on it everything should be still intact. Good luck and let us know how it goes.
 

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Actually, my main concern is the uneven force of the camshaft holding some valves open and those valve springs pushing the camshaft up. Imagine a situation in which you had the head off the car, all the valves out, the camshafts reinstalled, and the head placed up side down on a press. You place a support under the camshaft bearing caps on each side of one cylinder. Now, if you start applying force from the press with a rod through the valve guide onto the camshaft, at some point, you will be able to notice some degree of head, and camshaft distortion. Now imagine the same setup on the press. However, this time, a block is added with all the head bolts torqued. Although physically impossible, imagine that we could still apply force from the press through a valve guide onto the camshaft. Would we agree that it would take a far greater force to distort the cam, head, and block, than just head and cam?

Of course nobody would actually do that and it is a far greater force than the valve springs can apply. Also, it may be possible to remove the same head a dozen times with the cams left in and have absolutely no detectable problems. It just seems like a minor thing to remove the cams before removing the head bolts. Then, the process of relieving the stress of each head bolt gradually, and evenly over the entire head, is another matter.
 

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If it is a 3sgte, it looks like cake walk!!!

I only say this because I've done the 5sfe a few times, and you can't just simply pull the cams out. You have to turn the intake cam to make sure the exhaust cam is lined up properly to take out.

Let me tell you, it is a real pain.
 
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