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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to all members! As you can tell I am new to the forum, as well as to the MR2 (generally an Audi guy). I am looking to create a reliable race engine out of the 5FSE. It does not need uber power as I have found over the years that more power does not necessarily mean faster car. I hope to have around 180 to 200 HP and am willing to spend around 3500. To give you the background, I have a track prepped 94 MR2 with full cage, coilovers, as well as other race suspension parts. The car is dialed in and the engine that is in it has less than 7000 miles on it so I have some time before I need the new engine. Currently have a spare engine that I am looking to start a rebuild on, and like to have it ready for the 2007 track season. I have done quite a bit of trolling and searching in the last few weeks, but would like some ideas as well as let the 5FSE crowd know that a new face was among you. I hope to hear from you all soon, and look forward to some ideas.
 

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You are going to have to spend more than 3500 to get 180-200rwhp on a 5sfe. Do you want rwhp or fly wheel horsepower? For that kind of power to the wheels, you will need a very high compression motor that would be ran on high octane fuel. A lot of headwork, cams, larger valves, stronger rods, either domed piston's or shaved head or both and that all depends on if you want to keep the engine being a non-interference motor or not. You will need fuel upgrades because then stock injectors run out at around 140whp and pump runs out shortly after. You will need to opt for a full stand-alone EMS. Then the general header, exhaust, and intake.

Honestly (and I know I may tick some people off by saying this) it's almost better to start off with a 3sge (hey I could have said just put a 3sgte in ;) ) and port the heads, add cams, full exhaust etc and put it on a 5s block making it a stroker. Power will be achieved much easier that route as it has a better head design with better valve angles larger valves, bigger ports etc. The highest HP output to the wheels for the 5sfe was 147.01whp 153.3ft lbs. but that was a "mild build" on stock bottom end, bigger exh. cam, port and polish and shaved head with an AMS.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I realize that that number might be a little hight, but I do currently have the block and head apart and the head and block are in the process of being decked and shaved. Not sure what the final CR will be, but higher is better. As for an interference motor, that would not be a problem for me as most of my other cars are already. It has to be know that this car will never see the road as a registerd vehical, and is trailered to all events that it attends. I am currently looking for a stand alone system but do not want to go completly overboard, I need a decent system that will do its job. As for the money, 3500 is a soft number. I only said that because I could boost the engine for around that money (sc or turbo) and hit the 180 mark. The only reason I am going NA is because the engine needs a rebuild and I figured while it was apart I might as well build something a little more fun. As for going with a different motor, I see the potential but already own two 5FSE motors, three heads, two transmissions, and a slew of other parts for it. So why not make what I have work. Thanks for the quick reply, and I will need some more on the valves avaible to plus size. I think that is a must for a good engine.

Bruce
 

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Valves from the 3sgte will fit with headwork and they can be had cheaply. They are 1mm larger than the 5sfe.

So are you planning on staying NA? I was just suggesting the 3sge because I thought you wanted those numbers and it could be more realistically achieved.
 

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In what class are you racing? I would imagine the rules of your governing body would tell you what is a permissible mod and what isn't.
 

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I am currently looking for a stand alone system but do not want to go completly overboard, I need a decent system that will do its job.
megasquirt 2.

you could definately hit 200bhp with your budget.. it'll take careful planning, and alot of your own skill. if you have to pay anyone for installation, it wont happen.. but if you're smart and resourceful it will.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well I have the motor already, as it came with the car. I might as well use it. Also, I do love turbos but on the track you need to worry about heat soak and the larger IC's add weight to the car. I am a momentum driver and every pound counts hence my power steering, AC, and all other unnessisary things have been removed from the car. As is, with stock motor and straight pipe most cars have a hard time keeping up with it in the corners. Its quite a fun car, but now needs a motor that will push it just a little bit farther. I am also interested in dropping the gear ratio for 5th. It is just a little bit to tall for me. When I pull to the limit in 4th then shift I get nothing! And at places like the Watkins Glen I limit 4th by turn 3 then feel like I am coasting the back straight.
 

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TomsMR2 said:
megasquirt 2.

you could definately hit 200bhp with your budget.. it'll take careful planning, and alot of your own skill. if you have to pay anyone for installation, it wont happen.. but if you're smart and resourceful it will.
It would take a lot of research and practice as well. For the average joe with above normal knowlege of engines but not the skill and/or resources to perform the work it would not come close to 3500. But if you can do all of the work yourself then it would just be the price of parts then it could be done but very few are capable.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I do not race, the events are just for fun. Mostly BMW and Audi driver education events. They give you two to three days on track and when you get to instruck it is not out of the question to do 10 - 15 a year (even more if you are retired and have the time). So the sky is the limit as far as what I do. As for the managment system, I have never heard of them. Are they any good?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have a good amount of skill, but I also have friends that will help where mine runs out. When all of your friends go to track events, knowing how to fix things is paramount. We help each other out when we can.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I know this will blow the buget out of the water, but would a custom manifold help on a NA engine? Places like Magnus and rossmachine make intakes, but could an intake cure some of the flow problems of the 5SFE? Just throwing it out there knowing it would cost well into the 2000 range (everyone can dream).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So are we talking extrude honed, port matched, stock or full blown custom sheet metal with velocity stackers?
 

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the biggest question about that 200hp your looking at is do you want to retain tourqe or just want an flat out sky reving motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well let us not forget that I said anywhere from 180 to 200, but I would like the engine to rev out at around 7000 (I plan on a dynamic balancing) with a decent power and torque band. I realize 180 may be beyond the mark aswell but in the next year or so I will try.
 

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.. is that to the ground, or at the flywheel?

dont forget that v6 motors swap into our cars very easily. you get your 200hp right out of the box, a ton of punchy torque, and factory reliability.
 

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Speaking from racing experience (celica) 3SGE!!!!. We don't have to raise the hood unless we feel like it. We circle track the lil bugger at 6600+ rpm the WHOLE time. They are a BEAST. 180-200HP is Easily found. I will have specs and dyno stuff in the next couple of weeks. The engine stock redlines at 7300 and you can get around that for about $.50 because Toyota rated it to 8500 (although rumor has it at 8000 rpm the shimmed head can and will shoot the shims out). They are hard to find, but worth EVERY penny.
 

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It might be worth pointing out that the BEAMS 3S-GE has 200hp out of the box, and it should be possible to find one for your budget ...
 
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