[TaylorLV]

Ok, I've been looking at this set of classes as a place to run my MK1. Any thoughts?

http://www.nasaproracing.com/news/2006/Performance-Touring.html

I have already asked about classing and the like and apparently the base weight is for a late model NA, 2585, about 200lbs more than my 85 weighs.

 

[erioshi]

I guess the first question is weather you plan to run Time Trials (TT) or Performance Touring (PT). TT is timed laps with other cars on the track, but the event is scored on a couple of your best lap times from the entire day. PT is full on door-to-door racing.

The safety equipment requirements for TT are essentially the same as for their HPDE (non-competitive track day) drivers; for PT the safety requirements are a fully prepped & caged car with FIA seating & belts.

Figuring out your car's "class" within your series is pretty easy. Both series use essentially the same classing rules. They will have the base for your car, and assign "points" based on your mods. As you go up in points, your car will get pushed into higher classes. They also have provisions for 0 point updating and backdating - depending on a few criteria.

You've have probably researched all of that already though.

One way to check things out is to go to a few events and get approved to HPDE4 (open passing). Once you're at that level you can request approval for a transponder to see how your lap times would compare if you were competing in TT or PT. If that looks good then you could move to TT while you rebuild & prep your car for PT.

I expect to be running a few events in the Midwest region's TT series this year. If that goes well, then next year I may plan of running a full TT season while I start working on a PT car. Interestingly enough, the car I'm building right now is a v6 swapped MK2. I've already had a conversation at the regional level about the car, and they are willing to find it a home.

The PT series is brand new, and I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few rules changes over the first few years while they sort things out. The huge selling point for PT, though, is that you can run essentially car with essentially any configuration. Just be sure to have any mods not on the NASA points system approved and valued.

 

[Thunderpaw]

I like the new PT classing structure. Means I can run in something OTHER than SU.

By my calculations - my FP Mr2 could run in PTE (starts in PTG then 52 points of modifications put it up two classes). That's still a LOT better than SU.

An essentially IT mr2 could run in either PTG or PTF depending on level of modification and I would think it would do quite well.

 

[TaylorLV]

Any early chassis will probably get bumped up a class- the director told me my car was essentially 10 points misclassed as is. It may not be as bad depending on the cage weight etc, but for the moment it's 200 pounds lighter than their spec.

Anyways, the scheme still seems good to me because it will has lots of flexibility as far as weights and engine swaps. As it stands I think the MR2 will be a hell of a lot closer to the competition than in ITA.

 

[erioshi]

Any early chassis will probably get bumped up a class- the director told me my car was essentially 10 points misclassed as is. It may not be as bad depending on the cage weight etc, but for the moment it's 200 pounds lighter than their spec.

Anyways, the scheme still seems good to me because it will has lots of flexibility as far as weights and engine swaps. As it stands I think the MR2 will be a hell of a lot closer to the competition than in ITA.

I agree completely. I'm a little concerned about how they class the MK2 Turbo and possibly the MK2 N/A; although I haven't really done enough investigation to really know that for sure.

What did catch my eye was that a stock MK2 turbo classed exactly the same as a Neon SRT-4. I have not driven either of these cars stock on the track, but from the time I've spent in each, I think the edge would go to the SRT-4. It has better power delivery with a newer suspension and wider tires. FWD aside, a well driven SRT-4 can be a demon on the track.

 

[TaylorLV]

I think that they (srt-4s) are kind of easy to overdrive, plus adjustments may be made at some point. I remember last years SCCA t2 championship from TV- they stormed to the front, then slid off the track on the second lap. They did ok but they were beaten by lots of RWD cars, including a boxter. I don't think they are gonna "set it and forget it" like the SCCA and IT.

Keep in mind those cars are both handicapped, and that even real DOT-R tires will put them up one class. I think that the SRT-4 is so near the limit of what a FWD car can do in a roadrace that any serious power additions will just make it eat tires. Plus, it's already outhandled by the MR2's as is, with equivalent handling mods the MR2 should still keep the edge.

Ya know, even if the MR2's are a little misclassed (as far as I can see it's quite fair) here, it's a hell of a lot better than where they are classed in the SCCA! Mk1 N/A's are just a tad too fast for ITB and are stuck in ITA. MR2 Turbos and supercharged Mk1's have nowhere to run at all. I think the N/A mk 2 is the only one of the family that is top dog anywhere in the SCCA, and that's just autocross! I think it's great that they let you run the car you like, the way you like it even if people can (and probably will) find ways to work the system.

I hope this stays stable long enough for me to get my car prepared, because I think it would let me do just that. I could rebuild my poor old oilburning blue top, slap on some springs, race tires and the safety stuff and go- and not have to race against an ITA car with a 10k motor in the same class.

 

[erioshi]

I agree with more power turning the SRT-4 into a tire shredder, lol. I know somone in our local track-day club who's running a moderately built SRT-4 and the last time out he corded an essentially new set of tires in a single day.

On my Evo (400+ crank HP + well sorted coilovers with custom springs and damping) I can manage several events + a couple thousand street miles on a set of Toyo RA-1s. I am expecting the MR2 to be even better on tires, but I'm going to avoid R compounds for as long as possible - they tend to be addicting.

I also expect that NASA will work to get any big problems sorted out if they develop.

 

[Thunderpaw]

It seemed pretty fair on paper to me. Remembering that those classifications are with street tires, not even DOT race radials.

Heck of a lot better system than SCCA, would be a blast to run an NA with some modifications against a SC stock in the same class and see how they compared!

Or run different tire combinations - or change classes just by de-tuning some aspects!

Now I gotta consider NASA's schedule too.

 

[Jake]

I'll definately be running with them. Since I have no mods to the engine and run stock header, I can run run my car in PTF.

 

[Jake]

The more I think about this, the more I am really starting to like it. I'm really considering doing just the bare min with SCCA to keep my license, and racing with NASA this year. Between LRP, Watkins Glen, and Summit Point - I could get enough points to run NASA's first ever Nationals in Mid-Ohio.

 

[Thunderpaw]

The more I think about this, the more I am really starting to like it. I'm really considering doing just the bare min with SCCA to keep my license, and racing with NASA this year. Between LRP, Watkins Glen, and Summit Point - I could get enough points to run NASA's first ever Nationals in Mid-Ohio.

I'm loving the idea! We could end up racing same races at Summit and Glen, and maybe both of us make the MO national. That would be so cool.

Really nice thing about NASA is I can register my car in the HPDE stuff at the same weekend so can get extra practice/track time.

 

[Ashura]

wow.. would be nice to see more MR2s at mid-atlantic NASA events... Its been so lonely by myself...

btw HPDE does have passing after a point by rule so no flying pass other cars in turn 5-6-7

 

[steve b]

Okay guys, so walk through this with me and let me know if I've got this right:

I have a 1993 MKII n/a
so that puts me in PTF with a 7 point handicap----------------- +7
running Toyo RA-1 205/50/15 front, 225/50/15 rear------------- +5
no weight reduction
no engine modifications
Eibach Pro-kit springs ---------------------------------------- +2
Koni adjustable struts----------------------------------------- +4
Addco front sway bar----------------------------------------- +2
Porterfield or Panther brake pads------------------------------ +1
no aerodynamics mods
K&N cone air filter------------------------------------------- free

total 21 points
that puts me up one class. But if I put the stock springs back on, the total goes down to 19 and I stay in PTF. So I need to put in a "basic role cage", racing seats and harnesses. I have a fire extinguisher in the car. What else is needed? fuel cell? fuel sample port?

Could the car be competitive like this?

 

[Jake]

It's actually better than that. Springs are free, so you can stay in PTF with your pro-kit. I think the CCR are on nasaproracing.com - yeah, basically cage, seat, and stuff and your good to go.

Dave - if you are serious, maybe we can try to sync our schedules. Even in different PT classes, we'll probably wind up in the same run groups. I don't have a lot of money to do tons of events, but I'm sure we can collect enough points for Mid-Ohio.

 

[Thunderpaw]

It's actually better than that. Springs are free, so you can stay in PTF with your pro-kit. I think the CCR are on nasaproracing.com - yeah, basically cage, seat, and stuff and your good to go.

Dave - if you are serious, maybe we can try to sync our schedules. Even in different PT classes, we'll probably wind up in the same run groups. I don't have a lot of money to do tons of events, but I'm sure we can collect enough points for Mid-Ohio.

definitely, my current schedule is up and I can definitely do any summit point race easy enough. Haven't looked at the glen schedule. I would still like to do the SCCA nationals at the glen and mid ohio - and maybe the VIR national. That would keep my license (due to when my license expires the april Summit race counts for last year). Do maybe the hyperfest at Summit and some time at the glen with NASA. I'll have to look at their CCR more closely and figure out what my budget can handle.

 

[steve b]

I'm confused about the springs. Under suspension/brakes/chassis, I see where items 1-5 say springs are open. But item 6 reads "Non-OEM or modified coil springs, leaf springs, or torsion bars +2"?

I took that to mean that the springs are free only if you are already taking the hit for one of the items 1-5, which I am not.

 

[Jake]

Steve - my bad. I got confused because if you do coil-overs you don't have to add any points for springs. Maybe loose the swaybar and stay in PTF, or add another +18 and put on a aftermarket Turbo or Supercharger!

Dave - Hmmmm Hyperfest huh? This is sounding better every day. Have you ever gone to that? Sounds pretty wild.

NASA Glen
NASA LRP
NASA SP (Hyperfest)
NASA MO (Nationals)
EMRA LRP

No SCCA this year?!!? Maybe. My license actually expires in August, so I already did my required two races at the Labor Day Double at SP!

 

[TaylorLV]

If only they would decide to do a race in Las Vegas... that would make this whole thing more attractive to me. I'm gonna go down to calspeedway next month and take a look.

FWIW any cone filter that requires you removing the stock airbox is NOT free, only drop in filters are free. Also you start off at +7 because your car has a one star * handicap. So maybe it's better to mod up than down, fo you, since you are at 29 points, not 21. (+7 handicap, +1 for removing the airbox and using a cone filter).

Trust me, I checked because removing the airfilter box and replacing it w/ a cone is such cheap hp for a MK1.

 

[erioshi]

Steve, a quick walkthrough with the calculator (http://performancetouring.com/calculator.php) gave me a result of PTE (or PTF + 22 points). The scoring was exactly as you listed above, except with one additional point for the cone filter. You are correct to take points for both the springs & dampers; free springs are for coilover suspensions.

You could either loose 2 points and stay in PTF, spend another 17 on upgrades within PTE. If PTF is your goal, perhaps you could look through all of the swaybars offered for the 91-95 NA cars, and see if you can find a solution using the update/backdate rules. Another issue might be crash bolts, strut slotting, etc.; any non-OE simple camber adder looks to be a +2 point mod.

 

[steve b]

yeah, I missed the 1 point for taking out the air box. I think the way I'll go is put the stock air box back in and put the stock springs back on and run in PTF and that will also let me auto-x in ES.

So can anyone fill me in on how hard it is to get a comp license with NASA? I've done 3 or 4 HPDEs with them. I'm running HPDE2 and my last instructor said I was on the verge of being moved up to 3. So how far do I have to go based on that. (I do not have an SCCA or any other comp. license)