[nick.parker]

I had a gearbox shop put a KAAZ plate LSD differential into my gearbox (that was previously viscous LSD) and now have a interesting issue.

The LHS side stub axle is now too long to go into the gearbox (it hits the 'centre divider' about 20mm too early) and by way of crude measurement, the shortfall on the LHS stub axle, seem to be added to extra space for the RHS half shaft, so that it can no longer hit the centre of the diff.

Looking at a picture I took of the bare diff head, it looks like it might be possible to install the differential in two different ways? But I'm not sure?

Is is possible that my diff could have been installed the wrong way around?

Nick.

 

[reedd]

I had a gearbox shop put a KAAZ plate LSD differential into my gearbox (that was previously viscous LSD) and now have a interesting issue.

The LHS side stub axle is now too long to go into the gearbox (it hits the 'centre divider' about 20mm too early) and by way of crude measurement, the shortfall on the LHS stub axle, seem to be added to extra space for the RHS half shaft, so that it can no longer hit the centre of the diff.

Looking at a picture I took of the bare diff head, it looks like it might be possible to install the differential in two different ways? But I'm not sure?

Is is possible that my diff could have been installed the wrong way around?

Nick.

I have a KAAZ LSD in my mk1.5 with an S54 transmission. It's probably enough different from the E153 that it doesn't help, but when I rebuilt it (the LSD) there were options to point the plates in different locations to adjust the amount of friction. I made mine so the lockup(more or less) was on the mild side since the car is driven on the road more than on the track. It might be possible to have the whole LSD reversed - 20mm is a lot though! I don't remember having a choice of directions.

https://coordsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/KAAZ_Differentials_Lock_Adjustment_Instruction_Sheet.pdf

https://i2.wp.com/kaaz-usacom.mystagingwebsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/kaaz-adv-1.jpg?ssl=1

Could the LSD itself be the wrong model?

 

[DefSport]

Does the Kaaz need non-LSD stubs maybe? I don’t see how you could put a diff in truly backwards and get the car to move.

 

[immorality]

It's my understanding that all aftermarket LSD's are meant to use non-lsd axle stubs.

 

[Alex W]

As far as I know, LSD stubs are backward compatible to any differential that uses non LSD stubs

 

[merryfrankster]

There's no telling what might have happened here. The only way you'll know is to take it part. I can't picture it right now but it may be possible to bolt the ring gear onto the diff upside down. However in this situation it's hard to see how the assembly would fit into the case. The differential bearings on either side are sandwiched between the bell housing and the case like a clamshell. There is a very small amount of clearance for the pre-laod adjustment shims - certainly not 20mm.

 

[nick.parker]

Thanks for the answers.

The KAAZ LSD DBT2010 model is compatible with AW11SC (4AGZE / E51 box), AE101 Supercharged Corolla Levin (4AGZE / E58 box) and SW20 Turbo (3SGTE / E153) boxes. E51 and E58 and E153 shafts are all the same diameter and splines.

AW11 (E51) and SW20 (E153) axles have the same overall lengths, despite AW11 not having a supported RHS shaft section. The E58 / Corolla has as slightly wider track so the shafts don't work as too long. But you can use the E58/LEVIN half shaft bracket on the AW11 with the SW20 turbo half shaft - perfect match after a tiny bit of machining on the stub end of the supported shaft axle as it sits 10mm deeper in the AW11 box..

My actual application is not SW20 turbo its just I though I'd get more LSD knowledge over here. I have the DBT2010 installed in an AW11 with E51 box and I am trying to use the SW20 LSD Turbo shafts in that box with outer CVs to suit the AW11SC hubs. Note : These shafts (Sw20 LSD turbo) worked perfectly with the E58 gearbox that was my previously installed in my car AND the DBT2010 should swap into the E58, replacing the viscous factory LSD, hence why I believe everything should work.

I confirmed that my diff splines match the SW20 axles perfectly (push axle in and turn diff) .....its just the 'centre' of the diff that stop the axles going in further seems to be offset to the LHS, so the LHS stub cant go all the way in.

Looking at the diff (pic below) leads me to believe it might be possible to have the diff in backwards as the ring gear face is very central, so if the side bearing both have the same OD and the ring gear is near centered vs. its mounting face, then it should be possible to install two ways, right and wrong. This is how I came up with the hypothesis of the diff maybe being swapped -- and you can see the 'centre plate' (where small holes are) is offset to the right of the centre of the diff below) so it would move depending on diff orientation. But as i didnt do the install (a shop did) I'm not sure.

Also, looking into the RHS (short side) )of my E58 (that I was previously using I can clearly see / measure the internal 'hex bar' to be 15-20mm deeper into the box......

I'm going to take the box out of the car.....I'll update this thread with the answer when I know it.

Cheers, Nick

 

[nick.parker]

So I measured a few things and you can see the SW20 shafts cannot go into the box enough on the LHS and on the RHS same thing, shoulders are in the way.....
either way seems like (almost as if) the diff is an inch too much to the left inside the gearbox...... Trying to get some AW11 stub shaft measurements to see if I just need to use AW11 shafts.....
In in New Zealand hence the 'LHS (passenger) ' comments are not valid for USA!

 

[merryfrankster]

Wait... are you seriously trying to come up with some way to make it work without taking it apart? Impressive.

 

[nick.parker]

Wait... are you seriously trying to come up with some way to make it work without taking it apart? Impressive.

No just trying to understand the problem better. I am embedded software person (made the engine management system in my car)

so I am probably a bit OCD and go over things to death trying to spot something.....that approach often helps figure out complex software issues! Bad sadly I cant fix the gearbox with logic as you indicated

Here is the car with the problem gearbox and the above ECU system! (Note I haven't tuned startup and idle other than guesses from old engine)

 

[nick.parker]

Got the bugger out with a couple of jacks - will hopefully find out what going on this week...........

 

[nick.parker]

Well the gearbox shop says I must have the wrong axles and sent me on my way .....it makes sense on one level (i.e. it seems like an obvious solution).

But on the other, this DBT2010 supposedly can work in the E58 gearbox and SW20 gearbox with long spline LSD shafts...I'm stumped....could the LSD internals be wrong -- or does the E51 case I have place the LSD + Crown wheel assembly too far to the left (I dont think so, as I compared with my E58 box which are external similar on the LHS of the gearbox.

Also KAAZ hasn't replied to any emails.

Has anyone got some AW11SC shafts they can measure. ?

 

[GDII]

Can't you just machine down the length of the axle into the LSD? And lengthen the splines if needed?

 

[nick.parker]

Yeah, maybe, not a bad idea, that might sort the LHS, however the RHS axle has the opposite problem, its going to end up too short if it got machined (move shoulder away from spline) so it could go in the box far enough, as the support bearing would be in the wrong spot and also the the RHS inner CV would have to get move to the left (towards gearbox) making overall axle too short.....

I contacted and phoned Ray @ KAAZ and he is currently awaiting some LSD measurements from the Japan office.

 

[nick.parker]

The plot thickens......KAAZ's measurements in RED, mine are in MAGENTA.....definitely something funny going on!

These are measurements to the ends of the splines from outside of diff case.

 

[mr2racer49]

They sent you the wrong differential. Parts get boxed wrong all the time. The shop that installed it should have checked one against the other. This is one of the problems with taking your parts to a shop to be installed. Which is why "owner's parts" always mean no warranty. Where are you located?

 

[nick.parker]

Hi, I'm in New Zealand, but I've been in contact with Ray from KAAZ and he is being really helpful and responsive to deal with, I dropped the box off and 'm just waiting to hear news from the gearbox guy at the moment about what's going on with the diff. All I know is it bolts to the crown wheel just fine, and both inputs have the correct spline. But something is causing a 20+mm offset of the divider plate in the centre to the LHS of the diff head. Will update here with the final word once I have it! Cheers, Nick.

 

[nick.parker]

I finally have the answer. After having the box completely stripped down and then the diff pulled apart, the internal gear carrier was installed backwards - swapped that over allows the axles to work!!!! It taken a huge amount of labor to sort, but at least I now know the answer and will be on the road soon. So factory assembly mistake I guess! Unfortunately it was a very very costly mistake!