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Discussion Starter #1
A customer sent me an invalid core and i did some messing around with it and i was able to get it to fire without an immobilizer and then i decided to confirm the evap monitor stuff not being there on Australian cars.



Ignore the MIL state, i haven't done a single thing to the tune yet.

Notably, this is the same monitors that the Evora would have since they do not have an evap system.

It would be a fair bit of work to translate my tune over to that new ECU but if there's a demand for it i could certainly do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well yeah I'd say that could come in handy...
In which way could it come in handy? The only way i could see it helping with California CARB emissions people is if i make it available with zero modifications other than the immobilizer removal. In this case you would have to use a transmission simulator to remove those fault codes but with those and the catalytic converter you'd have a matched checksum(unmodified) tune with no faults and all the monitors passed but it would not be an american tune so CARB would still not like it.

Is there a locale that does emissions by checking the monitors but not the checksums? if so i can make a few tweaks like the rev limiter MAF calibration but otherwise leave emissions equipment and checks unaffected. As far as i know such a locale does not exist but i asked this out here since i'm really not the authority on emissions regulations in all areas.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Mark, does this mean the new 2GR ECU from you will pass California Smog?
As far as i know, the only way i could make a 2GR ECU pass CARB regulations is by getting an E.O. approval on the modified ECU tune. I'm pretty sure even if this rav4 tune had no automatic transmission stuff you could not pass CARB with an Australian ECU tune.

But that's why i started this thread, i live in Indiana, not California or other emissions controlled locales. If this would be helpful to someone please speak up so i can help people out.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So I gave a call to SEMA people a few hours earlier today. I talked to one of their California CARB specialists and asked if it would be possible to get a CARB E.O. for the following changes:

1)I need to modify the stock tune to remove the automatic transmission
2)I need to modify the stock tune to remove the evap subsystem (except for the purge valve)
3)The front catalytic converter needs to be cut & angled to miss parts of the car.

If i'm honest I did it to finally get a "yeah, no, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of any of that getting past CARB" so i could finally put an end to that discussion.

Yes, I realize that technically the evap system can be swapped in but a modern evap test is very likely to be reporting small and gross leaks on a very regular basis simply because of how many joints there are in the fuel system.

What they told me is that while modifying the cat position is not possible normally, when trying to get an E.O. it's a complete non-issue as long as it does not modify how the emissions equipment actually works.

But what i was blown away to hear is that the tune modifications actually have a chance of being accepted. The vehicle would get tested at many different load levels including up to 80% of rated horsepower and actual emissions measured. If actual emissions are to their liking you can then get an E.O. assigned to the combination of parts. At that point it would be easy for anyone in California to do a 2GR install with a manual, catalytic converters, my ECU and MAF tube.

But here's the rub, it takes a lot of lab time and applications to CARB to potentially get everything to where they are happy with it. I'd also need to actually build a car for them to test and get it from Indiana to California. There's no exact number on the cost, it could be as low as $5k, more likely to be about $20k and you could spend and spend and never actually get to a E.O. number.

At this point this is all 3rd party discussions but i did get some CARB contacts that i will reach out to in order to verify these details a bit.

I don't think i could pull this all together myself but if someone in CA is interested in helping with this I'd be happy to help however i can.
 

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Well I'd certainly like to be helpful here... PM me once you find out more. It does look like a rear manifold will fit in the front with a slice and re-weld to angle the pre-cat back about 20 degrees (to clear the frame). The OEM front manifold is a no-go as it interferes with the clutch and shift hardware.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well I'd certainly like to be helpful here... PM me once you find out more. It does look like a rear manifold will fit in the front with a slice and re-weld to angle the pre-cat back about 20 degrees (to clear the frame). The OEM front manifold is a no-go as it interferes with the clutch and shift hardware.

I'll have to check again but i'm 90% sure that if we use the right manifolds we can leave the rear 100% intact and do a cut & reweld on the front to change the angle and miss the clutch slave cylinder.

The big issue with doing this is going to be the only way to recover cost will be by selling that E.O. compatible ECU so that will have to be expensive depending on how much this all costs to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I dug about a bit with the CARB thing and there was so much negative feedback from people thinking i was trying to scam them that i lost interest.

The boost compatible tune i will be making soon will use that non evap tune as a base and i might go back and update the previous tune also but i don't see the justification in spending a ton of money getting an E.O. to make this legal when everyone is just calling scam. I just don't have that kind of money and time to blow on that.

and no, i don't know why people insist on being so toxic
 

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After seeing all you have done for the MR2 community where 2GR swaps are concerned this is sad to see. It seems like California residents will only commit dollars to finished products. The more I research trying to have an affordable six cylinder, legal mid-engined car in California, the more the Porsche Cayman seems to be the logical choice. Just a shame Porsche had to go and make that stupid 4 cylinder engine which has caused the 981 prices to dropping. Anyway, enough rant. You do great work and really help out this community a lot. This V6 forum would probably get pretty quiet if you stopped supporting the platform.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you for the kind words. As a one off there's always the choice of going with the Evora swap instead. Between the lack of evap on that car and the loosened pre OBDII restrictions recently for CARB allowing you to change the catalytic converter angle and whatnot that should work just fine. Sure, it'll be less power unfortunately but it'll still be pretty good.

Alternately i really hope to release a 2ar-fe motor mount for the SW20 this year sometime. that motor makes more power than the turbo motor did, just as much as the 1mz/3vz swaps and should be relatively easy to run through CARB. i can even provide a CARB legal ECU that has no immobilizer on it.
 

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I've been waiting to see someone tackle the 2AR-FE option for a years now. It would be a great option for someone wanting the lightest SW20 without sacrificing comfort. Based on my math 2500 lbs is possible. However, at this point is 6 cylinders or bust for me. I already have an EA62 gearbox with the starter mount welded, and everything down to the AC compressor lines. All that is left to get is a RAV4 ECU with immobilizer and automatic delete. Then I could start the swap process. I would like to try the Toyota route first as the integration is so much simpler. I rather go through the headache of getting the evap stuff to pass than dealing with all of the stuff needed to make the Evora stuff work especially since I don't like Lotus or Toyota for that matter because of they're unwillingness to make aftermarket mods on their car's tuner friendly.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The tune itself will get released eventually, that's not the issue but just the tune won't allow you to pass CARB, with the tune modification you won't pass the checksums on the OBDII so you need an E.O. to pass that way. but if all you want is a stock rav4 tune with an immobilizer and automatic delete without the evap monitors i could get you that by next week.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As for the weight, 2500lbs is certainly possible. i had a race car with a somewhat heavy cage and a 2gr at 2600lbs. the cage vs a full interior is not that different in weight and the 2ar-fe weighs about 65lbs less than the 2gr-fe.
 

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If I go with the RAV4 I want to keep the evap monitors because those are needed. What is the Lotus alternative? Did you ever finish up the programming for that? There is a full 2010 dropout for sale right now.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If I go with the RAV4 I want to keep the evap monitors because those are needed. What is the Lotus alternative? Did you ever finish up the programming for that? There is a full 2010 dropout for sale right now.
The lotus alternative is just using the Lotus electronics instead of the Toyota ones. There's no tune needed just to get the car running because the ECU does not have an immobilizer and the ECU is already made for a manual. THe Lotus also does not have an evap system so that part is significantly easier.
 

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You make the Lotus alternative sound very simple but from your thread on it, it seems like there are a lot of little modules that need special coding in order to work correctly in our cars. Stuff like the speedometer, gas pedal, abs etc. don't seem to be plug and play like the Toyota parts. I'm no electrician and don't want to spend time figuring that stuff out. Besides that, it seems like it would be easier to take a Toyota to a Toyota dealership and get a verified tune and certificate with a special note saying to ignore codes "x,y,z" because they are for an automatic transmission that the car is not equipped with, than it would be to take a Toyota to a Lotus dealership and successfully get the dealer to certify an Evora tune.
 
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