[Simon Bee]

Hi all,
First off I am new here and I have to say it looks a great club ! I have always liked the mk2 MR2 but when younger could not afford one, now I'm in my 50's my son and I acquired one last autumn and are loving the experience. So onto my question .....

We are considering changing the stock 15" rims ( car is a '93 Rev2 ) for 'Borbett A' which will retain the 15" diameter. Only issue I have come across is that we cannot get them staggered, they will be 7" deep all around and with a +35 offset.

I am aware of the importance of a staggered setup and naturally want to retain it. I will still stagger the tyres but how important in relation to the tyre stagger is the wheel stagger .... greater or not so?

Having checked out wheel/tyre specs on 91mr2.com ( found elsewhere on this forum ) I see that the 7" Borbetts will be as follows......

Front flush = 12.35mm tucked in
Suspension prox = 18.35mm from touching
Rear flush = 25.05 tucked in

This in turn means the new fronts will be 22.7mm further 'out' than the originals and the rears will be 10mm further out than the originals.

Now to my way of thinking this will mean that the rear track whilst now further out will actually be 12.7mm closer to the front than the original setup ..... correct?
I would like to maintain as close to original track setup as possible ( ratio ) and therefore ( correct me if I am wrong ) believe the rears should have 12.7mm spacers fitted to achieve this .... yes?

If this is correct I can obtain 15mm spacers for the rears. These I believe will bring the 'front to rear track ratio' closely back to OEM and the rims to a 'tucked in from flush' figure of 23.02mm. Given the diameter will be the standard 15" ( I really have no desire to go taller ) I assume that the rims will not make contact with the arches ( front & rear ) unless I have seriously shot suspension, which the car does not, it's sound.

I should also say the car is purely for road use, no track day setup required. Your help/advice/confirmation that I am correct ( or not ) will be greatly appreciated as I do not want to get this wrong, and I would like to thank you all in advance of any replies.

Kind regards, Simon.

 

[J.harris]

Consider how difficult it will be to find 15" tires in the size you need first.

 

[jesup]

Before you move to different 15" rims, check what rubber you can get.... There was no rubber I could find other than really generic tires -- and only in the same size for all 4, no stagger to match the wheels. And only one maker, a no-name korean brand IIRC.

I had to replace my 15" Yoko's (dry-rot). I had to get 17" wheels in order to find tires.

 

[Simon Bee]

Consider how difficult it will be to find 15" tires in the size you need first.

No problem in the UK, at least Toyo Proxes and the other end of the scale Pirelli P Zero Asemetrico but the later are £300 each ! Toyo around £100.
The Toyo will be OEM size ... 195/55 and 225/50. ( possibly 205/50 on front though if I want but 195 no problem getting )

 

[Simon Bee]

Thanks for the quick replies and I appreciate the advice on tyres but back on track ( no pun intended ! ) is my thinking correct?

 

[Simon Bee]

Toyo Proxes TR1 195/55 R15 V tyres | Blackcircles.com

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Toyo Proxes TR1 205/50 R15 V tyres | Blackcircles.com

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Toyo 225/50R15 91V - Bush Tyres

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[RePete]

A 15mm spacer out back would better balance out front to rear if you use a 7" +35 square setup. Don't forget to swap out your wheel studs for longer ones to accommodate those spacers out back (unless you're getting those heavier spacers w/ the already attached studs).

IMO, I would keep looking for the properly staggered wheels - maybe double stagger a 15/16" setup. Wheels/tires are semi-long term investments, better to do it right the first time.

This is 15x7/16x8.5 225/245, best handling set I've ever had on the deuce.

 

[Simon Bee]

A 15mm spacer out back would better balance out front to rear if you use a 7" +35 square setup. Don't forget to swap out your wheel studs for longer ones to accommodate those spacers out back (unless you're getting those heavier spacers w/ the already attached studs).

IMO, I would keep looking for the properly staggered wheels - maybe double stagger a 15/16" setup. Wheels/tires are semi-long term investments, better to do it right the first time.

This is 15x7/16x8.5 225/245, best handling set I've ever had on the deuce.
View attachment 80665

Very helpful and thank you for your advice/suggestions. So I am correct in my thinking that a 15mm spacer will get the track ratio somewhere close to where it should be? The spacer kit comes with a set of longer studs. There is a company in the U.K. ( Image wheels ) that will make wheels to any size and offset and I have enquired about a set of their Ferrari F40 style rims. The set would have OEM sizing, 6" fronts, 7" rears, +45 offset, a 'cast' set will cost about £2000.00 and 'billet" about £2500.00 , a fair price IMO, problem is I don't think I can justify the cost at the moment.

 

[xxxboosted2xxx]

Very helpful and thank you for your advice/suggestions. So I am correct in my thinking that a 15mm spacer will get the track ratio somewhere close to where it should be? The spacer kit comes with a set of longer studs. There is a company in the U.K. ( Image wheels ) that will make wheels to any size and offset and I have enquired about a set of their Ferrari F40 style rims. The set would have OEM sizing, 6" fronts, 7" rears, +45 offset, a 'cast' set will cost about £2000.00 and 'billet" about £2500.00 , a fair price IMO, problem is I don't think I can justify the cost at the moment.

If youre having these made, why not go larger?
As stated, its getting harder and harder to find GOOD tires at 15"
I was running Falkens, and like them, but there just arent a ton of options and even the Falkens I had I couldnt get a matching staggered set, the fronts were a different tire than the rear.

By moving to a 17" tire you have exponentially more tire options at various price points and needs/uses

 

[RePete]

Though even certain 17s are starting to dwindle as well.

...There is a company in the U.K. ( Image wheels ) that will make wheels to any size and offset and I have enquired about a set of their Ferrari F40 style rims. The set would have OEM sizing, 6" fronts, 7" rears, +45 offset, a 'cast' set will cost about £2000.00 and 'billet" about £2500.00 , a fair price IMO, problem is I don't think I can justify the cost at the moment.

If you want to save money, hunt up a set of OEM 15s and refurbish them.

 

[Simon Bee]

If youre having these made, why not go larger?
As stated, its getting harder and harder to find GOOD tires at 15"
I was running Falkens, and like them, but there just arent a ton of options and even the Falkens I had I couldnt get a matching staggered set, the fronts were a different tire than the rear.

By moving to a 17" tire you have exponentially more tire options at various price points and needs/uses

Currently there remains a reasonable choice for the 15" tyres here in the UK, I cannot speak for US availability though. I also want to keep the car as 'period correct' as possible hence sticking to 15" rims. I am not particularly fond of the look of 17" and 18" rims on the MR2, I believe they look too big and the tyre wall too low, that's just me - old school I guess, but I do appreciate your advice.

 

[Simon Bee]

Though even certain 17s are starting to dwindle as well.

If you want to save money, hunt up a set of OEM 15s and refurbish them.

The car currently runs on those rims and I am considering a refurb. I can have them done professionally for £90 a wheel, that's a full strip back, de-oxidising, damage repair if needed and finally a new powder coat in the colour of my choice. I just fancy something a little different but sticking to 15".

 

[RePete]

They're harder to find, but I'm sure you can coax an owner out of their '98 OEM SW20 wheels. They're 15" and in the sizes/widths you want.

 

[Simon Bee]

Well I have just ordered a set of 'Borbett A' with locking centres in 7"x15" x ET35. Will take about two weeks to come from the factory in Germany. Also adding 15mm spacers to the rear so as to get the front' rear track ratio back to stock as close as possible. I'll put a photo or two up once they are on the car. New 225/50/15 ordered, just trying to decide on the fronts .... would you stick with the stock 195/55 ( are they ok on a 7" rim ) or move up to 205/50?
Kind regards,
Simon

 

[RePete]

The original was 195/225, I always thought that was a bit anemic up front. If it was me, I'd go for the 205. I've always been fatter is better (except for girls).

 

[Simon Bee]

The original was 195/225, I always thought that was a bit anemic up front. If it was me, I'd go for the 205. I've always been fatter is better (except for girls).

Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated. Yes I am leaning towards 205/50, that will narrow the stagger by 10mm however how much of a difference will that make in normal road use ( with a bit of 'spirited driving in the mix when conditions allow )? No track use for this car.

Kind regards,
Simon

 

[RePete]

From driving these cars for almost 2 decades, my experience shows me a 20mm stagger is optimum. To add to that, When Toyota's TRD devision designed the performance package for the MR2 in the 90s, they mounted 215/40 & 235/40 on 7.5" and 8.5" +35 wheels.

 

[Simon Bee]

New wheels and tyres fitted. Original 15" diameter as I wanted to keep an authentic era look, 'Borbett A' 7" all-round as staggered not available, +35 offset, 205/50 on front and 225/50 rears, 15mm hub centric H&R Track+ spacers on the rears which brings the front/rear wheel stagger back. Took a few weeks to come from Borbett in Germany but well worth the wait, I'm very pleased with how the car looks and the wheels fill out the arches nicely without being O.T.T. ... do you agree?

 

[GDII]

New wheels and tyres fitted. Original 15" diameter as I wanted to keep an authentic era look, 'Borbett A' 7" all-round as staggered not available, +35 offset, 205/50 on front and 225/50 rears, 15mm hub centric H&R Track+ spacers on the rears which brings the front/rear wheel stagger back. Took a few weeks to come from Borbett in Germany but well worth the wait, I'm very pleased with how the car looks and the wheels fill out the arches nicely without being O.T.T. ... do you agree?
View attachment 81508 View attachment 81509

That looks good! What tyre brand and model did you end up with?

 

[Simon Bee]

That looks good! What tyre brand and model did you end up with?

Thank you, kind of you to say so. I really took my time over this as I wanted to get it right, I didn't want to be forced ( lack of tyres ) into 17" as IMO they are a little too large from an ascetic point and 18" is just a 'more wheel than car' look. I would however have gone to 16" if I really had to. The 'Borbettt A' was really the wheel I wanted and is only available in a 15" diameter for an unmodified MR2, which turned out perfect as I wanted 15" and that wheel, so worked out well.

The +35 offset, again the only option, is perfect too. The front wheels now fill the arches to a sensible degree and the rears also once the 15mm spacers are fitted. The wheels in the MR2 fit are only available as 7" all-round so I fitted the spacers to bring the wheel stagger back as much as possible, actually its now slightly wider at the back.

Regarding tyres, yes choice is limited but it is out there, just depends on your budget and needs. I ordered Toyo TR1 both front and back, the 205's came next day but the 225's are still out everywhere and on back-order, they are however still current so I have a pair on order. For now I have settled for NanKang's, my old tyres were close to being 'shot' so had to be changed. I don't drive like an F1 driver so actually the NanKang's are proving to be fine and very good value for money. Yokohamma have reintroduced the classic A008 in 225/50/15 but that also is at the moment difficult to get hold of. The Yoko is typically £200 - £240 per tyre but as I say not easy to get hold of at the moment. The other option available is Pirelli, they still make the P7 in small batches, usually used on the rear of older Porshe 911 and the front of a Lambo Countach. I could have got hold of those from a couple of sources but prices varied between £350 and £450 per tyre.

Kind regards,
Simon