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CAR MD
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Discussion Starter #1
Why is it I see some people post with tons of mods and HP running like only 13's and 14's and then some cars have very little mods runing 13's and some 12's? Is it that much of driver differences?
I'm basically be called out for BS because I posted someplace else, that my car is running 13's on a almost stock engine. So now I have to "post up my timeslip" to prove it. So I am, but I am going to do it 1 step better. This Wednesday I will have someone video the run and then there can be no arguement about it.
But I'm still curious about low 1/4 times with high hp.
 

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ive also seen this argument, people call out BS or blame the track?!
my friend ran a 13.4 with intake and blitz exhaust ONLY about 3 years ago at englishtown raceway, almost everyone called BS.....
 

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Turtle Racer
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^ somethings are hard to believe. like the term, too good to be true. and yes, the
best mod you could ever give your car is imrpove the driver. noshoes hit 11.8 with ct20 and about 320whp. why is it that LB can't do better than 11.0 with over 800whp...? all about the driver...

better example. J&H is 1 rank behind LB by about .1 sec. He also has almost half the whp...difference is, J&H hit 1.4 and jeff 1.5

somepeople spend big money on big dynos. other spend that same money on track time. i can garuntee you a lot of those people in the low 13sec page would improve their driving skills a little bit, especially their 60'. then a lot of them will move up to the 12 sec page. most are hitting 1.95-2.15. Generally, .1 off the 60' is usually about .2 off the 1/4.

however to give them credit, track conditions, weather conditions, elevation, etc etc all play a part though. wish i could hit low sub 2.0's though and hit low 13s
 

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i think it also depends on the engine conditions it is , ambient temp, track setup, specially tires , most important driver, you can give a high hp car to anyone who doesnt know how to race a car and he will still not get good numbers.
i am almost stock , hks intake ,hks exhaust , blitz ecu , stock boost 12psi , and i was running low 14s , i could have gotten in to the 13s but my exhaust manyfold had a leak, plus i was running stock 14 cheap tires. if get drag radials i could hit high to mid 13s.
so i think most hp cars that run high numbers , is because either the driver doenst know how to race a high hp car , doesnt have experience in drag racing , the setup is not right for drag (maybe all the power is top end so no power for drag) .
 

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CAR MD
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Discussion Starter #5
Yea, the 13.8 I ran was on stock boost, USDM ecu on JDM engine and on 18's. This week coming I'm going to run 15psi boost, I just installed my JDM ecu and hopefully I will have a smaller set of rims(maybe some 15's) to put on the rear. I'm hoping for high 12's or very low 13's.
 

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15s is a perfect size , i have the 14s i think thats to small , so next time i race ill put the 93 15s on hehe.
 

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Boz said:
best mod you could ever give your car is imrpove the driver.
I'd say that's mostly true if your main concern is a timeslip.

How the car "feels" driving around day to day is going to be completely dependant on your torque/horsepower.

Bryan can drive the piss out of a 320whp car, but it's still not going to feel like a 400whp car when you're driving for driving's sake, much less an 800whp car ;)
 

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^ true true, haha, i guess i only say it because my project is going to make to me stock fuel limits, 260-270 whp. which is still pretty quick though.

suspension parts are pretty good too ;) haha
 

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3rd gen 3sgte mr2 posted times of 13.7 stock on top gear at 245hp, and outraced a mazda rx-7 fd3s on the quarter close race tho. But the mr2's strong points are the launches, it out started faster than a wrx with a professional driver.
 

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the general consensus is that if your car is making 250whp, then it can potentially run high 12's but it all comes down to driver skill as most of u have stated.
when i ran a [email protected] just on exhaust and 15psi, track temp 32 deg celcius which is about 89F. ppl called out BS, lucky it didnt bother me coz the drag event was organised by the local mr2 club, so they backed me up :thumbup
 

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well its power to weight.
how much does a stock MR2 weigh?
1200KGs? if so it would need around 300HP @ the flywheel to hit high 12s.
My JDM rev 1 turbo at 7psi on the CT26 runs a 14.457 @ 99mph santa pod raceway in the UK
At 15psi I have hit a 13.532 @ 109mph
to run a 122mph trap, based on weight of stock GTS you would need [email protected] fly (340odd at the wheels)wheel, if you lessen the weight, you need less horsepower to hit the same times.

and if you run slicks knock 0.6 to 0.8 off you non slick times as you spend less time acclerating at the beginning :)

LAst year i did over 200 1/4 mile runs (not in the 2) but am very good a launching a car right, on a stock CT26 turboed car, try launching at 3500RPM - you will get off the line much better than you would at 6000RPM launch.
 

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JMD said:
Why is it I see some people post with tons of mods and HP running like only 13's and 14's and then some cars have very little mods runing 13's and some 12's? Is it that much of driver differences?
Most of it is going to be the driver, but there are a lot of other factors:
*tire choice
*track prep
*ambient temps
*elevations (not so critical in a turbo car)

MPH = HP
ET = How well it was driven

You should notice that MR2s dynoing with similar power will have similar MPHs (assuming the weights of the MR2s are similar).
The easiest place to see this is in the 60' since that is most crucial driver's moment.

A look at the 1/4-mile registry:
[email protected] w/1.66 in the 60' Paul Wehner themr2man
[email protected] w/1.90 in the 60' Mark Boldissar mr2driver
[email protected] w/1.93 in the 60' Nick Thorn Nick
[email protected] w/2.06 in the 60' Ron Salb

The 60' is crucial.

Boz said:
better example. J&H is 1 rank behind LB by about .1 sec. He also has almost half the whp...difference is, J&H hit 1.4 and jeff 1.5
Actually, on our drag runs, it is apparent that LB might have been putting down, at most, 50 rwhp more than I have.

The mph in the 1/4-mile does not lie. He only hit 125 mph (which I have done), s he was probably close to 500 rwhp.

Either he was running less power at the drag strip OR his dyno is a complete farse.
 

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1) When people talk aboaut horsepower, the r4eally mean peak horespower So horsepower only represents a single point on the power curve. Total area under the curve is a much more meaningful indicator of performance.


2) The outcome of a drag run (or almost any competitative contest) is determined by numerous other factors, most significantly DRIVER perfromance.

bill
 

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toyotagrl said:
3rd gen 3sgte mr2 posted times of 13.7 stock on top gear at 245hp, and outraced a mazda rx-7 fd3s on the quarter close race tho. But the mr2's strong points are the launches, it out started faster than a wrx with a professional driver.
Are you talking about the T.V. show "Top Gear"? If so, then where can I find the video? Got a link?
 

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Boz said:
^ somethings are hard to believe. like the term, too good to be true. and yes, the
best mod you could ever give your car is imrpove the driver. noshoes hit 11.8 with ct20 and about 320whp.
Yes, noshoes is a very good driver.

Boz said:
why is it that LB can't do better than 11.0 with over 800whp...? all about the driver...
better example. J&H is 1 rank behind LB by about .1 sec. He also has almost half the whp...difference is, J&H hit 1.4 and jeff 1.5
In LB's defense, I must correct a few things. When he ran his 11.0 he only had dynod around 600RWHP. Also, by LB's trap speeds (Somewhere around mid 120s IIRC. Im not at home so I cant look at the video), he was only putting out about 450-500RWHP, and Fazio was putting out about 440RWHP, and due to his lightened car, he has about a 20+RWHP advantage over LB (If LBs car is full weight. Not sure about that though). So theoretically they were within about 50RWHP of eachother so I'd say that at most LBs car was capable of a high high 10, so not like he did all THAT bad. Also, the different between a 1.4 60' and 1.5 60' at the 11second level is really only about .1 seconds.
*quick edit* I typed this up before reading J&Hs post. Well at least I know I was pretty accurate lol.

Boz said:
somepeople spend big money on big dynos. other spend that same money on track time. i can garuntee you a lot of those people in the low 13sec page would improve their driving skills a little bit, especially their 60'. then a lot of them will move up to the 12 sec page. most are hitting 1.95-2.15. Generally, .1 off the 60' is usually about .2 off the 1/4.
That is true for most racers, although, once you get in the 11second range, the 60's effects kindof even out with the rest of the track, and each .1 off the 60' is really only about .1 off the E.T, all else being equal.

How the car "feels" driving around day to day is going to be completely dependant on your torque/horsepower.
boostd4, that is so completely true. If two cars are making 400RWHP, and one is using a TD06 and is making 400 ft/lbs of torque, but the other car is using a GT35R and is making 300 ft/lbs of torque, the GT35R car will be just as fast, but will be mch easier to drive (less wheelspin).

(maybe all the power is top end so no power for drag) .
franky, just to use you're post as an example. Where you're power is at, as long as you have at least ~2500 RPMs of "full" power, really has nothing to do with the ablility to run fast times. I have to repeatedly tell my Domestic-owning friends that their trucks (454SS) with 20,000 ft/lbs of torque and 200hp (well, 420 ft/lbs and 200hp at the crank, according to a G-Tech) still runs a 15 (according to a G-Tech) because it is HP that determines overall acceleration. Ryan Woon of the Supra comminuty was making about 1400RWHP and not hitting boost til about 6k RPMs, and he was still running low 9s at 160+MPH with 1.4-1.6 60's average.

*edit*
Also, Jeff, good find on those cars all trapping 112 but with different 60's. Way to show a point!
 

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Po' Kid said:
boostd4, that is so completely true. If two cars are making 400RWHP, and one is using a TD06 and is making 400 ft/lbs of torque, but the other car is using a GT35R and is making 300 ft/lbs of torque, the GT35R car will be just as fast, but will be mch easier to drive (less wheelspin).

.....because it is HP that determines overall acceleration....
Unless the TD06 had a terrible torque curve (so it was making hp peak at like 4000 rpm) that would never happen. 400 wtq is going to accelerate a lot more quickly than 300 wtq.

In theory hp is all that matters, but in real life that is not the case. You can simulate torque through gearing and still have a fast car, but if you have to shift a small engine 8 times to keep up with a large engine in 1 gear you're going to be slower.
 

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toyotagrl said:
3rd gen 3sgte mr2 posted times of 13.7 stock on top gear at 245hp,
245 was at the FLWHEEL, not at the WHEELS. That car probably had 180-200 rwhp.

billwot said:
2) The outcome of a drag run (or almost any competitative contest) is determined by numerous other factors, most significantly DRIVER perfromance.
That is true for the ET, not the MPH. As long as the driver was competent enough to make a valient effort to drive as fast as possible his MPH should reflect his ET regardless of driving.
 

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billwot, you got it right with the peak whp thing. if the torque curve is somewhat flat, then the car will perform better than appears in max power. if the car has "peaky" type torque then the car will be slower than it appears (in stats). an s2000's peak whp/wtq would make it seem super slow in the 1/4, but looking at the actual dyno and you'll see it has a rather flat torque curve. s2000 may not be that fast, but they only have like 205 whp and 160 wtq @ 2800 lbs. i've heard that the it can get 13.7's. note that this would be running the car ragged. synchro's are know to go bad from 1 to 2 after lots of high rpm shifts.

also, i read that power to weight is a big thing, but you must remove alot of the weight to have it play a big role in the time (elise being a prime example). then the factor of gearing comes into play.

as stated grip is a huge factor. my 00 celica gt has bad wheel hop, while the mr2's rwd setup is much better.
 

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mr_two said:
also, i read that power to weight is a big thing, but you must remove alot of the weight to have it play a big role in the time (elise being a prime example). then the factor of gearing comes into play.

as stated grip is a huge factor. my 00 celica gt has bad wheel hop, while the mr2's rwd setup is much better.
it's all within reason. 270-ish whp in an mk2 is about 10:1 power to weight ratio (which i think is pretty good actually, there are crazy nuts out that what wnat more, heh). so either build hp or reduce weight or both.

again it's still needs to be within some reason, i've driven an sr20 powerd miata and that thing couldn't get traction for anything short of slicks.
 
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