MR2 Owners Club Forum banner

21 - 40 of 89 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,213 Posts
Texas_Ace said:
That first link is highly unlikely. Eazy has a fully built 5sge (using the much better G head over the F head)NA motor with 12:1 CR on E85, custom everything and he was still only able to put down ~180whp IIRC.

Highest 5sfe I have heard of is around 135whp but I am sure there have been higher since I rarely pay attention to the NA section.
Yup.. thats my engine.. It took a lot to get it to 180WHP and since then with the intake manifold changes i think i broke the 200 mark if i had to guess i would say 210-220 but not more than that.. I never hit the dyno with the last manifold change. I cant wait to get my new setup on the rollers to see what it puts down.. I have big gold?s and wising with both fingers crossed to hit 300WHP. This is my last build and i give up after this. I am one of the mode determine NA guys here on this forum and it feels like crack after a while.. lol.. but good luck on your build.. just dont go with WHP hops and be stuck on them cause the dyno will break your heat and your pockets will follow :)

1ofthesedays said:
This setup never happened... Its pure BS and i dont think anyone ever attempted to follow these directions to make 200WHP from a 5S. Good info but its not proven to work as a formula.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,388 Posts
Texas_Ace said:
Just to show what a little boost does, My boosted times on a not so perfect run were:

~14.9 @ 92mph
so your supercharged truck is slower than a cammed 5sfe mr2..
The moral of the story is don't waste your money on a 5sfe
lol irony.

long story short.. people dont know what they're talking about. i dont know how 30whp from cams is a bad gain. they also run as fast as a stock turbo with 130whp. the head itself flows very well, 190 degree cams dont.
 

·
Don't mess with Texas
Joined
·
19,880 Posts
TomsMR2 said:
so your supercharged truck is slower than a cammed 5sfe mr2..

lol irony.
My truck weighs 5000lb, an NA MR2 weighs ~2600lb. It is also a 4wd auto so not near as much power is making it to the ground. The truck is gonna be a little slower to say the least even though it is making almost 2x the power. I never said the truck was fast, I gave a comparison to put things in perspective.

The point I made is that all the NA mods that could be done netted me a whopping ~1 second tops gain in 1/4 mile times and that is generous considering the biggest gains came from the converter.

Whereas a little boost dropped the times 3 seconds for less money. The same priceable applies to the 5sfe or the 5vz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
TomsMR2 said:
so your supercharged truck is slower than a cammed 5sfe mr2..

lol irony.

long story short.. people dont know what they're talking about. i dont know how 30whp from cams is a bad gain. they also run as fast as a stock turbo with 130whp. the head itself flows very well, 190 degree cams dont.
I don't see what the big deal is... for a reliable daily beater, low 14's on motor only in an mr-2 would be ideal to me... and the cost of cams/exhaust does not outweight the cost difference of n/a vs turbo starting car, much less n/a+turbo swap. With a 50 shot/progressive 100 shot or so, you could probably tear down all but the most expensive and powerful 3sgte's that are street driven. Perhaps $1-1500 worth of mods that will be used for 1-2 years is a lot more to other people... it's not some trivial amount of money... but I spend that much upgrading my phones in a year lol... it's not the end of the world, and unlike the phones, these parts still have transitive value when removed.

And that's only if drag racing is your thing. Even so, an n/a mr2 scraping a 13.9s 1/4 would be a hell of a lot more fun and faster by a wide margin over a 14.9-15+ second truck lol. Regardless, I'm talking about building it n/a because it will be limited to DD utility for the following year or two regardless of intentions, and I will tinker with it and mod it some most likely just because that's what I do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,388 Posts
The point I made is that all the NA mods that could be done netted me a whopping ~1 second tops gain in 1/4 mile times and that is generous considering the biggest gains came from the converter.
yes, you wasted money on things that dont make power. like i said (and has been dyno proven) cams on a 5sfe net 30whp. if you have a 91, cams run about 200 bucks, and drop the time from ~16.0 to ~14.5. not seeing how thats a poor gain, or really that expensive.. or why thats dumb, but spending a few grand to run slower in a heavy truck makes sense..

makes the car fast enough, reliable, and completely realistic to drive the hell out of. ive been here long enough to see peoples projects sit on jackstands for years. a cheap built up na is quick and runs.
 

·
Don't mess with Texas
Joined
·
19,880 Posts
TomsMR2 said:
yes, you wasted money on things that dont make power. like i said (and has been dyno proven) cams on a 5sfe net 30whp. if you have a 91, cams run about 200 bucks, and drop the time from ~16.0 to ~14.5. not seeing how thats a poor gain, or really that expensive.. or why thats dumb, but spending a few grand to run slower in a heavy truck makes sense..

makes the car fast enough, reliable, and completely realistic to drive the hell out of. ive been here long enough to see peoples projects sit on jackstands for years. a cheap built up na is quick and runs.
Forget the truck, it was just an example. I spent the money on these mods for when I was boosted, which they worked very well for. I am in the transition stage between supercharger and turbo.

I have never heard of or seen 30whp gains on a 5sfe from cams. If true that is not a bad dollar/HP ratio.

Tossing a stock 2nd gen turbo/manifold onto a 5sfe should only run you a little more then cams (we are only installing the turbo/manifold, just like the cams and letting the stock ECU figure out what to do just like the cams) and will net you a lot more power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
Here ye go buddies. Probably one of the fastest stock head 5sfe's alive today.

My 5sfe turbo'ed MR2.
Worlds fastest 5sfe.

Another view of the pull.
RPM rise

Idling with 1000cc injectors at 14.7 afr like a boss.
Idling

Anyway, will get more videos of it in action in the spring. :smile:

Here's the OLD setup. Supra injectors and safc2 tuned. The unreliable setup as I suspect 5sfe ecu runs TOO much ignition timing on boost. 5sfe rods were all oval and bearings beat to hell.
Previous 5sfe turbo setup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I didn't specify N/A in the title, but did in the original post lol, sorry for the confusion, should have made N/A part of the thread title.

However, keeping relevant with my interests, the MS2 you have installed, was this a PnP kit offered, or home build? I seem to recall them offering a PnP MS2 for the sw20.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
I see, well I am definitely looking forwards to the advantages MS2 PnP will have on a 4cyl vs. a 6cyl application like my e30, should be fun to have less demands because of fewer cylinders and therefor more control and extra features/capabilities. No wasted spark for the 5sfe like the m20 hahaha

and Texas Ace, yeah, 30+whp for ~$600 is prety killer $/HP for an n/a low displacement 4cylinder, that's part of what I love about some econo-lump engines, they have so much power under the table to extract that even though they aren't worth much a damn really, they can totally be worth it in some ways lol. Engines with economical engine tunes and cams stand to make large gains generally.

For the cost of cams, MS2 PnP, fleabay headers/exhaust, and an intake to add to the enjoyable noises she makes, you can pick up an n/a and doing your own labor, easily burn stock turbo's all day long and have less money in it than a turbo of equal quality, without sacrificing any drivability/reliability or making the car crazy. That's the idea for it being a DD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
Mulholland said:
For the cost of cams, MS2 PnP, fleabay headers/exhaust, and an intake to add to the enjoyable noises she makes, you can pick up an n/a and doing your own labor, easily burn stock turbo's all day long and have less money in it than a turbo of equal quality, without sacrificing any drivability/reliability or making the car crazy. That's the idea for it being a DD.
How do you figure?
Stock MR2 turbo makes 160-180 rhwp and torque if it is healthy.
That is better than the best 5sfe number by quite a bit and pretty darn close to a fully built 5sge. I don't think that just cams are going to get you more than he got with an entire head upgrade, high comp pistons etc. I would be interested to see a 5sfe making 160 rwhp with just cams and an exhaust. I will put one in my mki and get rid of this useless 3sge.
 

·
Don't mess with Texas
Joined
·
19,880 Posts
mr2by4 said:
How do you figure?
Stock MR2 turbo makes 160-180 rhwp and torque if it is healthy.
That is better than the best 5sfe number by quite a bit and pretty darn close to a fully built 5sge. I don't think that just cams are going to get you more than he got with an entire head upgrade, high comp pistons etc. I would be interested to see a 5sfe making 160 rwhp with just cams and an exhaust. I will put one in my mki and get rid of this useless 3sge.
To back that up there have been guys running mid 13's on stock turbo cars if they know how to drive. Someone posted running a 13.4 on a stock MKII with an air filter just the other day.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
If you talk with someone who has dynoed stock turbos, the power can vary greatly from car to car, especially as they have aged (some more gracefully than others). I have driven a turbo MKII that could hardly get out of its own way, but that car had issues. I think a stout 5sfe could have beaten it easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
Texas_Ace said:
To back that up there have been guys running mid 13's on stock turbo cars if they know how to drive. Someone posted running a 13.4 on a stock MKII with an air filter just the other day.

Please show me a 13.4 second completely stock mr2 turbo. I would love to see one... Regardless, I did specify most mr2 turbo's I believe at some point. I have not seen any stock 200 crank hp US mr2 turbo's throwing down 180+whp... maybe, MAYBE 160ish....

Turning up to boost =/=stock... so a completely stock turbo one 16psi or whatever, doesn't count. I am talking showroom stock car. I don't care how easy it is to add power blahblah blah, the context of my comment was stock MR-2's because the idea is that with the same investment, spending a couple grand less starting with an n/a mr2 vs a equivalent condition turbo, and dropping some $1500 into it for cams, EMS, and exhaust/intake... you have less invested, a perfect DD, and hardly any real work done labor wise even if you can't do it yourself, maybe an extra $5/600 max in labor.

Regardless, a 13.4 and 180+whp are NOT typical numbers for a stock mr2 by any means, and that certainly wouldn't be joe blow driving a stock car over a full second quicker in the 1/4 than the car could do brand new, even if it was stock...
 

·
Don't mess with Texas
Joined
·
19,880 Posts
Mulholland said:
Please show me a 13.4 second completely stock mr2 turbo. I would love to see one... Regardless, I did specify most mr2 turbo's I believe at some point. I have not seen any stock 200 crank hp US mr2 turbo's throwing down 180+whp... maybe, MAYBE 160ish....

Turning up to boost =/=stock... so a completely stock turbo one 16psi or whatever, doesn't count. I am talking showroom stock car. I don't care how easy it is to add power blahblah blah, the context of my comment was stock MR-2's because the idea is that with the same investment, spending a couple grand less starting with an n/a mr2 vs a equivalent condition turbo, and dropping some $1500 into it for cams, EMS, and exhaust/intake... you have less invested, a perfect DD, and hardly any real work done labor wise even if you can't do it yourself, maybe an extra $5/600 max in labor.

Regardless, a 13.4 and 180+whp are NOT typical numbers for a stock mr2 by any means, and that certainly wouldn't be joe blow driving a stock car over a full second quicker in the 1/4 than the car could do brand new, even if it was stock...
Stock MKII with air filter 13.4: http://www.mr2oc.com/showpost.php?p=4908408&postcount=26 Talk to the poster not me although I have seen several other 13 second stock cars over the years.

Normal RWHP for a bone stock MKII turbo is ~160-170whp according to ATS IIRC. So if a ~130whp NA is running low 14's then a ~165whp should be running 13's.

Feel free to mod the NA, just a waste of money when you get right down to it but if you got money to spare, well then you should spend it on a turbo swap lol but your money, do with it whatever you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Texas_Ace said:
Stock MKII with air filter 13.4: http://www.mr2oc.com/showpost.php?p=4908408&postcount=26 Talk to the poster not me although I have seen several other 13 second stock cars over the years.

Normal RWHP for a bone stock MKII turbo is ~160-170whp according to ATS IIRC. So if a ~130whp NA is running low 14's then a ~165whp should be running 13's.

Feel free to mod the NA, just a waste of money when you get right down to it but if you got money to spare, well then you should spend it on a turbo swap lol but your money, do with it whatever you want.
Even within the thread that is posted in, discussing turbo mr2's at the drag strip, no one seemed to believe him at all, and I don't either.

http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/jsnodgrass.jpg
http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/edinauer.jpg

There's what I assume is a stock 3sgte and then Jim Snodgrass's 5sfe dyno. Bear in mind your nutswinging bench-racer scenario of "well if a 137whp NA ran a 14.3 then 165whp turbo should run 13's" scenario completely disregards every other aspect of the car... namely weight and transmission ratio's... but regardless, I just don't care. I am not saying it will wreck the 1/4 and be a dyno queen.... I'm saying it will be cheap, reliable, fun, and inexpensive.

Please bear in mind that most 1/4's I see for Gen 3 swapped turbo cars, are 13.7ish... so I call complete and absolute shennanigans BS on a 13.4 stock US mr2, no way, no how, not gonna happen, doesn't add up at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,298 Posts
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2628364

I always thought it was cool how in the Honda world they've over time managed to push almost every engine that ever came in a honda to it's absolute limits. Check out the section on modding the SOHC motors! :p

Sometimes it's not so much about the ultimate power but about taking something and seeing what you can get out of it. Otherwise the only thing you would ever do is engine swap the largest motor with the largest turbo that you could shoe-horn in to the car.

Sometimes it's just fun to play around and see what you can get, even if there are more economical ways to get your hp/$.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
lumbercis said:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2628364

I always thought it was cool how in the Honda world they've over time managed to push almost every engine that ever came in a honda to it's absolute limits. Check out the section on modding the SOHC motors! :p

Sometimes it's not so much about the ultimate power but about taking something and seeing what you can get out of it. Otherwise the only thing you would ever do is engine swap the largest motor with the largest turbo that you could shoe-horn in to the car.

Sometimes it's just fun to play around and see what you can get, even if there are more economical ways to get your hp/$.
Indeed. That's why I have a 400+whp SOHC 30yr old straight 6 powering my e30 and not some more modern version of the same engine, with more displacement, or an engine with more cylinders and displacement. I actually LIKE the SOHC and how it feels and the character of the engine.

You don't tell an olympic sprinter he's a moron because a bike, horse, car, etc. would be a quicker way of getting A-B... because that isn't the point... it's to see how far he can push himself. Even if someone did go all out on a 5sfe, and come up with something that cost double a 2gr swap, and put out 2/3rds the power, it wouldn't matter... that wouldn't be the reason to do it. You do it because you want to do it. There doesn't need to be any logic. It was never a question of efficiency in the manner I asked it. It was a question of how much power and how fast has one gone, because I think I may take a crack at going harder and faster with one, and however far I go would be dictated by how much I liked it beyond my initial discussed set up.
 
21 - 40 of 89 Posts
Top