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Discussion Starter #1
No trolling intended, but as I will be buying an n/a most likely, because I don't care for the stock turbo anyways, and will probably end up swapping the engine anyhow to a gen 3, if not a V6, and I will probably mod it while its n/a and full time daily cruiser status... I have seen like 135whp and 14.3 or so as the best numbers for a 5sfe.

Are there better numbers out there anywhere, or is that where the bar is set? Because as a byproduct, if I do intake and headers/exhaust (primarily for the enjoyment of noises behind my head) and cams for a bit of power, and megasquirt 2 probably to suit any future needs for the car, I could potentially go for some records, regardless of how trivial they are lol. I wager I could squeeze out a 14.2 and a few more ponies if I went for it

So anyone have numbers? Thoughts? And no head swap, and no built bottom end, probably just cams on the top end too. Unless I really like it as. daily and don't decide to go overboard, but we shall see... I tend to go overboard and retire cars from daily duty when I like them enough haha
 

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I was only able to hit 116whp with bolt-ons, but with cams, tuning, and some head-work,I think 160whp can happen.I heard the rod bolts are the weak part of the 5s motor.My n/a is past 1/4 million and still pulls hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Yeah as stated, I will being doing the bolt on bits for sound and aesthetics and just to wrench on something mostly. Not expecting much hp/$$ return there. I'm realistic with my expectations. Though if I picked up ~10whp under the curve anywhere with intake/headers/exhaust I would be happy, and that's a large enough amount to feel.

Peeple are magazine racers mostly and just listen to a peak dyno number... I care more about peak gains than gains at peak really. Certainly so on a street car.

I am curious where the extra 5 peak crank hp comes from on the 93+ 5sfe's though and if they dyno plots for the two are any different at all, as well as what dyno's look like for a 5sge build. I have loads of research to do to keep me busy until I locate the perfect mr2 to start from. Blessing in disquise coming from the severe lack of mr2's for sale that I like and how rapidly the ones I do want get sold before I can get to them since none are in town usually. Regardless, the intake would just be a home made unit and cost very little, I'm sure I have plenty of charge piping a silicone couplers and t-bolt clamps laying around, sot he onyl cost is an air filter, if I do that... and I probably even have that laying about so... free noisemaker mod... the catback could most likely be used in the future depending on what/if I swapped, as could the standalone engine management, so at the end of the day I'm only actually investing what, $800 or so into the 5sfe specific hardware with cams and (fleabay) headers? I could probably recoupe at least 50% or better reselling the stuff down the road as well.

Only way I could see losing any significant amount is by building the bottom end and doing headwork chasing "big" numbers. Then again, I have always regretting selling off the n/a stroker motor I was building for my e30 and going crazy with the turbo and have been looking to do another n/a build in the future if I find another engine whose characteristics I find desirable and worthy. Maybe it'll be the 5sfe, but I doubt it.. my 2.7l 4cyl in my porsche 944 didn't make the cut haha it'll probably end up being a bmw straight 6, but I wish it was a great 4 cylinder... less pistons, rods, etc for 4cyl vs 6cyl.
 

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If you want a performance 5sfe, you should start with a 3sge beams motor. Only problem is that it is almsot as expensive as a turbo swap, but has less potential.In its favor the Beams would still cost less than your 5sfe built motor and make more hp stock than most 5sfe builds ever will. Perhaps you could make a 5sge beams motor...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
That wasn't my question. Many people on this forum seem to have a hearing deficiency.


As I stated, it isn't a built motor. Not unless you're a moron and you consider bolt ons and cams to be built... which it isn't. I already stated that I wouldn't be considering touching the bottom end or head work other than cams unless I fell in love witht he character of the motor, which I doubt I would.

And I would swap in a 2az or attempt a 3rz swap before ever strapping a POS beams 32sge motor behind my head. Overpriced lump of rev happy weaksauce IMO. Not for turbo money, for a motor that won't do much more than what its doing stock, no thank you. I drove a beams mr2 I was considering buying and... just no.
 

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Mulholland said:
Only way I could see losing any significant amount is by building the bottom end and doing headwork chasing "big" numbers. Then again, I have always regretting selling off the n/a stroker motor I was building for my e30 and going crazy with the turbo and have been looking to do another n/a build in the future if I find another engine whose characteristics I find desirable and worthy. Maybe it'll be the 5sfe, but I doubt it.. my 2.7l 4cyl in my porsche 944 didn't make the cut haha it'll probably end up being a bmw straight 6, but I wish it was a great 4 cylinder... less pistons, rods, etc for 4cyl vs 6cyl.
Sounded like you were contemplating building your 5sfe.
It is a waste of time since the head flows poorly for performance.
If you don't want opinions, don't post, just search.
Good luck with the cams.
 

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MR2by4 was about as civil as it gets. Good luck making anymore on your 5sfe than a stock beams 3sge. I have a 5sfe in my car, it's about hardy as a lump of coal and about as good as one to tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
mr2by4 said:
If you don't want opinions, don't post, just search.
Good luck with the cams.
Didn't really ask for opinions as much as ask for specific numbers for highest dyno proven whp and/or factual time slip proven best 1/4 run, and post what I had found as the current best numbers when I did search.

Don't mean to sound like a disrespectful/unappreciating prick, just meant for the thread to be more on track than it is now and didnt want it derailed with "xx swap is more cost effective, faster, better" comments. The car will be swapped and further modified in the future, the point was that in the mean time, I wouldn't mind grabbing worlds most powerful/quickest/fastest 5sfe/5sfe powered mr2 for an extra $800 or so while I am laying the groundwork for future plans.

Does that sound fair and make sense in context and looking at my original post? Again, sorry if I came of disrespectful/unappreciative.
 

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pigfragger said:
MR2by4 was about as civil as it gets. Good luck making anymore on your 5sfe than a stock beams 3sge. I have a 5sfe in my car, it's about hardy as a lump of coal and about as good as one to tune.
Ditto.

If you truly want to waste money on a 5sfe though, put some nitrous on it, thats the only way you will get any real power gains out of it. It is actually not as odd as it sounds, it should handle a ~50 shot without much trouble.

I actually went though trying to urk out every last bit out power out of my 4runner the other day since removing the supercharger in preparation for a turbo setup.

I HATE working with NA motors, while I was supercharged I added pretty much every part you can that will add power, headers, intake mods, ect. Going back to NA All $1500 worth of mods netted me maybe 10-15whp in NA form. Boosted those same mods netted me around 50whp.

In my case I ended up maxing out everything I could and notice that the stock tune was still pretty rich and it could use some more octane so I turned on the meth injection with a small nozzle and added 2 gallons of pure methanol to the gas tank to lean things out.

This worked well, picked up another ~5-10whp.

Final numbers were:

Bone stock: 1/4 mile time on the gtech ~18.7 @ ~74mph (note that I had a stock torque converter which is what played a large role in slow ET vs the new runs, so the numbers are not directly comparable to the new runs.)

Modded without meth: ~17.8 @ 76.x

Best time with meth injection and meth in tank: ~17.5 @ 77.5

Just to show what a little boost does, My boosted times on a not so perfect run were:

~14.9 @ 92mph

The moral of the story is don't waste your money on a 5sfe, just save your money and skip directly to a turbo motor. Personally I would leave it stock and toss a 50 shot on it and enjoy. Can always use the nitrous later on the turbo setup, none of the NA parts are interchangeable.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I'm sure a 50 shot owuldn't do any harm at all, we slapped a 50shot on a POS $500 beater beretta, among some other "choice" mods, to mock ricers with, turned out well enough, and that was a terrible little engine. I dunno though, never been a big fan of the bottle but I don't mind a 50 shot on anything really, it's just not that much, damn near anything can handle it. It's part of what I had planned to scrap sky high 13's on a 5sfe mr2 to take the record if I had to, but regardless, I think with just headers and cams, the standalone ecu, and cat back, and decent suspension/tires, the record could be mine, just to say I took it.

I'm not chasing a big power 5sfe, I'm not claiming it'll be devastatingly fast. Just asking for accurate max dyno and time slips to see how easily I could attain said titles if I chose to... just to do it. It'd be fun and I'd be achieving something neat, albeit trivial. I don't need anyone to tell me it's a waste or not to do it. In the end after doing what I have said, and selling the crap that won't carry over if/when I move on fromt he 5sfe, My net loss would be in the sub $500 range... Worth it to have the car be that much more enjoyable as a daily driver with the 5sfe for probably more than a year or two.

I just don't have time to have a big engine swapped/boosted project on top of everything else atm. Trying to get a lemons/chump car team going with my friends possibly, got an upcoming wedding in november, already have my main project car, and trying to get rid of some others so the Mrs. will let me get a shifter kart as a new toy, so I have to pass the mr-2 future project car off as a daily driver for the forseeable future.

Anyhow, what does a stock beams mr2 do in the 1/4? because it can't be any faster than a US turbo does stock I'm sure, right? And they do what, like 14.7's bone stock?

I don't mind constructive brainstorming/opinions here but mostly just wanted questions answered... nice neat close ended questions, not vague newb troll questions like "What's the max horsepower I can make from my 5sfe?" or "How much will it cost for me to make over 200hp n/a, I don't want a turbo or V6 or different motor!" so please, give me a break with all the ball busting advice on what to do.
 

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That first link is highly unlikely. Eazy has a fully built 5sge (using the much better G head over the F head)NA motor with 12:1 CR on E85, custom everything and he was still only able to put down ~180whp IIRC.

Highest 5sfe I have heard of is around 135whp but I am sure there have been higher since I rarely pay attention to the NA section.
 

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vendors should make an aftermarket intake manifold and bigger TB for the n/a,the high-end on these engine suck.When my n/a craps out I'm getting a gen 3 with minor tweaks and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
GENESIS said:
vendors should make an aftermarket intake manifold and bigger TB for the n/a,the high-end on these engine suck.When my n/a craps out I'm getting a gen 3 with minor tweaks and call it a day.
You could always make your own manifold fromt he stock mani, and buy a throttle body of whatever size you wan to fit and assemble pretty much. Not the worst thing in the world to make... Couple of velocity stacks off a stub of the stock runner into a sheetmetal plenum with the throttle body on the end, bada-bing bada-boom...

And to the "if someone pays me I'll dyno my..." guy... just go to the next dyno day at any shop around you that has a dyno and does in house dyno tuning. Usually most shops have a day every other month or so. Check your local mustang forums or maybe if ricekillers is in your area, that would be a good network to check for free dyno days. A dyno is a tuning tool to me, I don't really support dyno'ing to verify power output. To see variance in performance of two or more versions of a part, i.e. headers, cam, intake, whatever, sure... or to tune EMS... but just to see how much power your stock car has after bolt ons.. never got the point lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
GENESIS said:
vendors should make an aftermarket intake manifold and bigger TB for the n/a,the high-end on these engine suck.When my n/a craps out I'm getting a gen 3 with minor tweaks and call it a day.
You could always make your own manifold fromt he stock mani, and buy a throttle body of whatever size you wan to fit and assemble pretty much. Not the worst thing in the world to make... Couple of velocity stacks off a stub of the stock runner into a sheetmetal plenum with the throttle body on the end, bada-bing bada-boom...

And to the "if someone pays me I'll dyno my..." guy... just go to the next dyno day at any shop around you that has a dyno and does in house dyno tuning. Usually most shops have a day every other month or so. Check your local mustang forums or maybe if ricekillers is in your area, that would be a good network to check for free dyno days. A dyno is a tuning tool to me, I don't really support dyno'ing to verify power output. To see variance in performance of two or more versions of a part, i.e. headers, cam, intake, whatever, sure... or to tune EMS... but just to see how much power your stock car has after bolt ons.. never got the point lol.
 

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I'm way past the bolt-on's part. ;)

Megasquirt 2 v3, 36-1 trigger wheel, MSD EDIS coil, home-made fueling map, home-made ignition table (of course I cheated by comparing srt4 maps with evo x maps), semi-sequential fuel injection, high active launch control, and a 44 psi capable map sensor with barometric correction. :yenko:

Besides, I'd gain next to nothing with my stock non-adjustable 5sfe scissor cams on a dyno tune. :p

I'd rather save that money for my 5sgte build up. But yeah, maybe one of these days when there is a dyno day going on.... too bad torquefreaks is no longer in business. They used to do $30 dyno days.
 

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You need to talk to nitrusmr2 (actually ATSAaron) about what the 5sfe can do on NOS!
I can sum it up for you, it can burn up the NA clutch quickly!
If you are pulling the tranny to do a clutch, might as well pull the whole motor and put something worthwhile in there.
The 5sfe is fun in a MKI, but even then its anemic top end gets frustrating. Not that its a bad motor, just doesn't respond well to modifications and there are few of them out there.
 
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