[TySaxon]

I know there have been people who have made insane numbers using 100% OEM ignition components in the past, but there have also been people who have had problems using it in higher HP conditions.

What are some of the ideal ignition setups for a high hp mr2? (by 'high hp' i mean 450whp+)

Would a plain jane 6AL and msd coil do the trick?

Would a MSD dis-4 and individual coils be best?

I did a lot of searching and it seems that most just opt for the 6AL and blaster coil, and call it a day. But is there a better option out there?

Discuss :angel:

-Ty

 

[TySaxon]

From another thread i found:

Quoted from RickyB:

When you say you want to go distributorless, you need to specify which of the functions of the distributor you wish to switch over to another system. The distributor on the 3SGTE performs three vital functions:

1) Multiplexes the power of a single coil to four spark plugs
2) Houses the crank angle sensor
3) Houses the cam position sensor











So using the nemesis, how would one go about getting rid of the distributor? I assume you'd have to fabricate some sort of crank angle sensor and bracket i guess?

-Ty

 

[TySaxon]

well hell yeah... i got all kinds of opinions!!! woohooo

 

[NoShoes]

Ty,

I have a parts list and write-up for a good ignition setup that works very well at 400+rwhp levels with a stand-alone EMS like yours.

MSD-6200 (MSD 6A)
MSD-8223 (MSD blaster 3 coil)
MSD-8213 (blaster coil bracket)
MSD-8920 (tach adapter)
MSD-8823 (MSD vibration mounts)

That's the list for a Nemesis car. The write-up will be coming soon.

 

[mpa4712]

Ty,

I have a parts list and write-up for a good ignition setup that works very well at 400+rwhp levels with a stand-alone EMS like yours.

MSD-6200 (MSD 6A)
MSD-8223 (MSD blaster 3 coil)
MSD-8213 (blaster coil bracket)
MSD-8920 (tach adapter)
MSD-8823 (MSD vibration mounts)

That's the list for a Nemesis car. The write-up will be coming soon.

how will that setup work for a sdr car? I currently have a 6a and a blaster2. What are the vibration mounts for? Also, what coil to igniter wire is supposed to be used with the setup your mentioned Bryan?

mark

 

[TySaxon]

how will that setup work for a sdr car? I currently have a 6a and a blaster2. What are the vibration mounts for? Also, what coil to igniter wire is supposed to be used with the setup your mentioned Bryan?

mark

The vibration mounts are just that... vibration mounts. You'll use them between the MSD box whatever your mounting it to, to keep vibration down. For the coil wire, you'll more than likely have to use your toyota wire, and pick up an MSD end, and cut off the toyota end and crimp on the MSD end.

-Ty

 

[RickyB]

how will that setup work for a sdr car? I currently have a 6a and a blaster2. What are the vibration mounts for? Also, what coil to igniter wire is supposed to be used with the setup your mentioned Bryan?

It works the same way. The C12 pin on the large connector from the SDR is the tach output and you can use it just like the Nemesis. Follow the MSD installation instructions just like for the Nemesis.

 

[RickyB]

So using the nemesis, how would one go about getting rid of the distributor? I assume you'd have to fabricate some sort of crank angle sensor and bracket i guess?

The process is quite involved, very painful and hardly worth the bother in all but a very few unique cases. I would say unless you plan to make over 700rwhp with a healthy shot of direct ported nitrous to get you there that it is not worth going there.

You would have to set up both crank and a cam angle sensors plus spend a hefty sum on a high power DIS setup.

 

[TySaxon]

Looks like MSD it is

Thanks guys

-Ty

 

[boostd4]

What do you guys use for a coil to dizzy wire? Since I plan on running 19psi on the street and up to 25psi on race gas, I think I'm going to go the MSD route as well. NoShoes' parts list comes out to ~$275 worth of NIB Ebay finds. That's pretty cheap for an upgraded ignition system.

It's been crammed down our throats that the stock ignition system should be fine up to ~350whp, but I would assume that it's not only the horsepower levels that affect how effective your ignition system is, but the combustion pressures. I guess I'm just covering my own ass with 19/25psi boost levels and an MSD even if i don't make more than 350whp.

 

[RickyB]

What do you guys use for a coil to dizzy wire?

You modify a stock one to work by swapping the stock coil boot with a GM boot. It's easy if you have the crimp tool. If not, borrow one or have somebody who does have one do the modification for you.

 

[TySaxon]

also,... for stuff like MSD i like to buy through Summit.

Best prices, great service, and i get my stuff within one day. I ordered it all today and it was only 270 shipped i believe.

-Ty

 

[boostd4]

I have another question... what does the multi-spark system do to flame propogation? The multiple sparks don't disrupt the natural progression of the combustion flamefront?

 

[99_GS-T]

Multi-spark is just there to make sure the mixtures get lit. If the spark plug lights the charge on the first fire, the multi spark doesn't do anything put throw extra arcs after that initial ignition event. Multi-spark ignition boxes generally stop using the multi-spark feature around 3000 RPM anyway and go to single fire mode.

I personally like the Autronic 500R and Honda CBR 954 coil on plug setup being used on a friend's car. It is over kill for a 400 WHP car though. It was not incredibly expensive, but it is a bitch to find spark plugs that work well with the coils. The Autronic was costly, but it is leaps and bounds better then an MSD box. The coils were cheap.

 

[NoShoes]

Here's the coil installed using a regular plug wire (longer than the stock coil wire) with the GM boot end.

 

[mr2dude2000]

Top view

 

[KingSapper]

Wow.. looks pretty sweet..

Good info on the MSD stuff that will work for a Nemasis car, as well..

A question though. For those of you out there that have gone distributorless, what is your opinion of it? I am looking into it (I don't care if I have to fabricate brackets for sensors and such.. I can deal with that) and I understand that it's way overkill for what I'm planning on running. But hey, I'm a bit of a nutcase anyway.

So provided I wanted to go coil on plug ignition, and I was interested in the nemisis (it's either that or a MoTeC M400). I know that I'm going to have to block off the distributor hole (I'll fab something if a plate's not available) but my big issues is a crank angle sensor and cam angle sensor? what have people been using?

I would like something that would play nice with a different master crank pulley set as I intend to go to cogged belt for the alternator and the eventual dry sump oil pump.

So since we're on the topic of ignition, what do you all think?

Thanks,
Will

 

[99_GS-T]

Granted it is not on an MR2, but on a DSM, I have seen a considerably difference in the signals between a crank based crank trigger and a cam driven crank trigger.

The cam based sensors will have a comparatively erratic signal interval. I'm guessing it is due to harmonics within the engine valvetrain and the timing belt stretch. Basically the ECU sees a wild variation in RPM that isn't there because the timing belt and camshafts flex and resonate while under load. This variation can be a couple hundred RPM span from the nominal RPM. The problem with this is that your injector pulse width and ignition advance bounce around with the observed RPM oscillations. For example, while the motor maybe running at a nominal 7000 RPM, the cam based signal is picking up anything from 6700 to 7300 RPM. The fuel and ignition advance will be inaccurate for the actual RPM.

For a casual observation that could be a cause of numerous things, I have noticed that DSMs running the factory 2G crank angle trigger vs. the 1G cam based sensor tend to run smoother, particularly at high RPM.

To play the devil's advocate though, there are plenty of imports out there running cam based crank sensor/distrbutor systems well into the 9 and 8 second range.

 

[NoShoes]

Granted it is not on an MR2, but on a DSM, I have seen a considerably difference in the signals between a crank based crank trigger and a cam driven crank trigger. SNIP

I have seen it on an MR2, and you are absolutley right. It is my preference for a crank based system, and a little birdie told me that the Nemesis will be able to run a crank trigger system really soon.

 

[KingSapper]

really.. if the nemisis ran a crank trigger I might just go for that over the MoTec (and save a big chunk of change). I've got some time before I will be able to put any of it in as I have a deployment coming up soon, but I'm kind of window shopping and trying to determine what my set-up is going to be once it's spending time.

Now for a follow-on question; where would I source the cogged pulleys and the crank wheel for running with crank triggering?

Thanks all.

Will