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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.smithracecraft.com/gallery/galler22.jpg

http://www.smithracecraft.com/gallery/gallery.html

It seems that one of the things that limits MR2 V8 swaps is that V8's are usually mounted longitudinally, not transversely. The normal way to mount them allows plenty of room for a wide variety of transmissions. In the United States we are swimming in a sea of large dispalcement V8s, but they require a typical RWD layout.

So...make the MR2 front engined. The availability of tubed 'front halfs' might be the trick. That would be a solution to engine mounting, suspension, steering, and braking. All of the stock MR2 front end stuff is pretty old and heavy anyway. I mean, just look at it. There's a lot of metal up there for just a radiator and a battery. The fenders and strut design also limit tire width.

I'm sure that plenty of people have suggested this before, but I think it is worth another look. I'm also interested in how the rear end would be done. With the entire (old) engine bay empty, the sky would be the limit. Should the stock suspension be kept? Should an IRS (subframe and all) from a donor car be used. How wide could the tires be?

By modern standards the Mk2 MR2 is a pretty heavy car for a 2 door four cylinder. But by muscle car standards, the MR2 is a featherweight. And sexy. :p

Anybody wanna put a VK56DE in an SW21? :thumbup
 

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makes more sense than putting it in the back and driving the front wheels but then it would not be an mr2 anymore, what engine is that in the pic, gm inline 6???
 

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Discussion Starter #5
javajoe79 said:
makes more sense than putting it in the back and driving the front wheels but then it would not be an mr2 anymore, what engine is that in the pic, gm inline 6???
Yeah, it's the (Atlas?) 4.2L I6. It looks pretty good in race mode. :thumbup

I was thinking about the FWD thing again. One of the things that I originally spec'd was using ideas from drag racing suspensions. I really don't like the idea of a solid axle, but a 4 link is what works best for traction. I started thinking about how much the front lifts and the rear squats. That lift in the front means that the nose is being pushed up and the front tires are being pushed into the pavement. That's good, but it can only last for a few inches...and it is only half the car. Rear squat is dialed out as much as possible...even with wheelie bars.

So...why can't the front and rear be mechanically linked? That way the rear is lifted up into the air as well. We have anti-sway bars, so why not anti-squat bars? For a FWD drag racer with a 4 link up front, it would just require a straight bar linked to a similar suspension in the back. The cool thing is that it wouldn't have to be a 1:1 ratio. A 2" lift of the nose on launch could cause a 4" lift in the rear. :thumbup
 

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Discussion Starter #6
casualsax3 said:
Not by much it doesn't. It is a stupid idea. A stupid stupid idea.
Well then sit down cause here's another one. I was under the WRX today changing steering rack bushings (in January, outdoors :p ) and I took some rough measurements. The 5 speed is really narrow right up until the engine.

Pretty much everything bolts to the front subframe; engine, steering rack, front part of lower control arm. The subframe bolts to the frame rails with 4 big bolts. The rear part of the control arms bolt to the body. The transmission crossmembers (which are overly complex) bolt the sides of the tranny tunnel. Then there is the pitch rod, but that's a minor deal.

How wide are the front frame rails on the Mk2? How wide is the center tunnel?
 

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It is about 12 inches wide. Where are you going to put the fuel tank?
 

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If that is the car I think it is, it was a Beech Bend in Kentucky this summer and it ran like a 9 flat in the quarter. On top of that the guy said he leaves the line with 15 or 20 lbs of boost. Something in the trans, 4l80e with a controller, lets him do that but he wouldn't say what.
 

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javajoe79 said:
On top of that the guy said he leaves the line with 15 or 20 lbs of boost. Something in the trans, 4l80e with a controller, lets him do that but he wouldn't say what.
Transbrake would be my guess...you could load the engine against the locked tranny and spool up the turbos while waiting for the green.

-Stephen M
 

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Stephen M said:
Transbrake would be my guess...you could load the engine against the locked tranny and spool up the turbos while waiting for the green.

-Stephen M
well normally that can't be done, with only so much rpm allowed by the brake, you can only get so much boost. If it was that easy everyone could leave the line with 20 lbs
 

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Discussion Starter #11
mr2by4 said:
It is about 12 inches wide. Where are you going to put the fuel tank?
The WRX 5 speed is about 10 inches wide. Promising.

Fuel tank? ...on the roof? :p ...build a custom front bumper beam/fuel cell? ...just ziptie the fuel pump in the frunk and fill it with gasoline? ...fill the tires with gas? ...muffler/gas tank?

Oh wait! The entire rear half of the car would be empty. Maybe a fuel cell would go back there somewhere. :p
 

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You should do it! put a tape on it. See if the subby engine will clear the wheel wells and brake booster etc. I think that it might be too wide and or too long, but I am not telling you no. Just mentioning that you will need to buy a fuel cell, in addition to a custom drive shaft to cope with the 4 inch difference in wheel base in addition to custom axles, differntial carriers,etc etc
The gas tank was just a for instance. It would certainly be cool and different.
 

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mr2by4 said:
You should do it! put a tape on it. See if the subby engine will clear the wheel wells and brake booster etc. I think that it might be too wide and or too long, but I am not telling you no. Just mentioning that you will need to buy a fuel cell, in addition to a custom drive shaft to cope with the 4 inch difference in wheel base in addition to custom axles, differntial carriers,etc etc
The gas tank was just a for instance. It would certainly be cool and different.
maybe but it won't ever happen
 

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Why would you want a subaru motor in an mr2? Isn't that why you bought a toyota? Quality? Subaru's are junk! As far as putting an engine in the front of an Mr2 why not just swap a V8 into a st185 celica and make it rear drive? There's not much room in the front of an mr2 to begin with not to mention all the additional weight built into the rear of an mr2 as it is midengine. Midengine cars are heavy as they have to be engineered for strength in both the front and the rear. If SARD can build a v8 mr2 then it is possible. Changing the design and adding more strength and weight to the front of the car makes no sense. It would be pointless IMO to do this. I am up to see a v8 swap but it won't be cheap as the transmission would be an issue. A porsche or Ferrari trans could do the job quite nicely though.
 

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remember the whole engine would have to be mounted in front of the front axle, which should put the crank pulley in the middle of the front air dam :p
Also the engine would probably twist the front of the car quite a lot if you didn't cage it - remember that any rotational torque produced by the engine has to have an equal and opposite torque produced by the engine mounts (and thus whatever they're mounted to) to stop the front chassis legs from turning into a pretzel.
 

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A subaru motor would definately sound great but so would a V8.As far as an engine going in the front goes a modified bonnet may have to be the go.An interesting idea may be a FR drifter after the conversion is done.You could always use the engine bay as another storage place.It would be quite freaky owning a practical MR2. :thumbup
 

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How on earth is an MR2 with the engine in the front practical? If you want more storage space, get run flats and use the frunk for storage.
If you make the car FR you would need to put the gas tank somewhere, since now you have a drive shaft in its spot. You would most likely have to mount it where the engine is now. It would have to be a custom job and would likely significantly raise the center of gravity of the car. Now you need to put your spare somewhere, since you have a motor in your frunk. So you lose the trunk you have now. Toyota did an excellent job of packaging the MR2. Witness the fact that you can carry 4 full size stock tires to an auto-x, without putting any of them in the trunk. (just can't carry a buddy along with you)
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I just got done flippin' through MAX POWER. You guys should check out the Mk2 MR2 that the guy is converting to a center seat. He's making the thing into a widebody and fabbing up a MacLaren F1-style seating arrangement. Centered driver and staggered passengers...a 3 seat MR2!

I figure that guy moved the gas tank.:D

http://www.john-sleath.com/misa/John Sleath r1.jpg

Here's something else that was in MAX POWER. Supercharged V8 Audi drag racer.
 

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mr2by4 said:
How on earth is an MR2 with the engine in the front practical? If you want more storage space, get run flats and use the frunk for storage.
If you make the car FR you would need to put the gas tank somewhere, since now you have a drive shaft in its spot. You would most likely have to mount it where the engine is now. It would have to be a custom job and would likely significantly raise the center of gravity of the car. Now you need to put your spare somewhere, since you have a motor in your frunk. So you lose the trunk you have now. Toyota did an excellent job of packaging the MR2. Witness the fact that you can carry 4 full size stock tires to an auto-x, without putting any of them in the trunk. (just can't carry a buddy along with you)
I agree Toyotas engineers did a superb job making the MR2 and there would be no way I would ever want to change the position of the motor.But I suppose different ideas make the world go around.Good luck with the conversion :thumbup
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I wish I had enough money/time/skill to do this...

47mr2's said:
Why would you want a subaru motor in an mr2? Isn't that why you bought a toyota? Quality? Subaru's are junk!
Junk? Okay, I'll bite. Tell me what specific Subaru and Toyota engines that you're talking about, compare them, and point out exactly why one is 'junk' and the other is not.

One of the reasons that I like the Subaru AWD system is that it puts the transaxle in the middle of the car. The engine hangs out over the front wheels, but it is short and is all aluminum. That makes for a fairly wide engine, but I'm more concerned about how tall it is.

I just keep thinking of odd stuff I saw in the latest issue of MAX POWER. They have a quad turbo MercedesV12 powered widebody Skyline GT-R, a stupid quick 2-door EVO, and a twin-engined VW. They also highlight one of the RallyCross cars (a 500hp Fiesta!) that has a rear mounted radiator.

The Subaru engine is short, but if it was still to long then the radiator would go elsewhere. I'm really open to moving stuff around, so don't automatically assume that the car would be nose heavy.
 
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