[3rlend]

sorry for off topic, but where did you get 91mm stroker crankshaft ?

 

[Paluce]

5s crank.

Rod journals were machined down to 1.8888" to accept the 3s rods. That gave me 0.0018" clearance on my rods.

 

[Paluce]

its a cool mod, would be even cooler if you could vary its timing like the Beams

Yes, and like MANDALAY said, using a beams head it could be possible. and i'm sure someone will eventually do it in the near future. But ya, it took me 6 months to find just the cam. There are not a lot of these around. I think the CC volume of the beams is down around 34cc's or so, so custom pistons to run lower compression would be nessesary. It wouldn't be as easy as just bolting it on.

For myself, I didn't want a lopy idle, but I wanted to improve the top end of this stroker I'm building. High lift cams, with Mild duration was the best option. Kelfold 258's were the other option, but they were hundred's more $. and this is cooler in my opinion. next best is 244's from a GEN2 GE, which i think you have

 

[Paluce]

MANDALAY,

Would you happen to know the cam timing on the exhaust side for a red top beams? is it 7/57

Gen2/3 ge's all slut the overlap down at 7deg ATDC, not sure if beams RT is different

 

[MANDALAY]

 

[Paluce]

Awesome! 53/11 I won't even need an adjustable cam gear when I drop this in!

 

[MANDALAY]

Glad to be of help.

Just point out this is a dyno compared to a GEN 3 on the same dyno.
Please note this was my first attempt at the Rotrex install and only had 1.5 inch lines way to small.
Reason was before i forged the bottom end i was going to limit to 7 PSI.

Look at the difference between the Rotrex SC and a Turbo MR2 GEN3



The Beams head makes a big difference. The better VE results in more power with less pressure

 

[Paluce]

VVTI helps a ton, and the extra compression... I'm assuming it was a stock head right? You don't need to run nearly as much boost to achieve the same cylinder pressures. Every extra lb of boost makes a much larger impact on the beams. I'm impressed for sure.

 

[MANDALAY]

No I reduced C/R to 8.9:1 The head is stock

 

[3sgteftw]

i agree the beams head is the best 3S variant and should produce more power with less boost.

however comparing your built and tuned engine to that gen3 is a little misleading. tho i don't know full story, the gen3 is only putting out 150kw/203HP whcih is i'm guessing a completely stock motor? also the boost seems spike and then taper off to 11psi. whereas yours continues to rise to 15psi?

yours is tuned with a motec and has a WTA IC and nice exhuast from memory? all these things add up along with the better duration and cam timing of the beams head allowing more flow in the top end.

the gen3 with proper tuning and IC and zuast would look much better and perhaps a better comparison.

 

[MANDALAY]

^ yes i agree. Just making a point that the head is a better design , bigger valves , cop etc etc out of the box all OEM. Should point out thou the C/R 's are the same and at that stage my pipe work was very restrictive only 1.5 inch that is very small.
At 5000 RPM thou we are equal but turbo was 15 psi while my SC was 5 psi.
Thats what im trying to say , a mod GEN 3 with the correct turbo would trounce me for sure.

I guess im flying the flag for the Beams engine well at least for the Head

 

[3sgteftw]

wow 1.5in piping from SC to TB? isn't the WTA core inlet/outlet bigger than that tho?

head aside unless that stock gen3 had more adequate cooling (stock IC and piping is craptacular esp when put on a dyno without airflow directed over it), unrestrictive exhaust, a decent tune and a fresh motor it's never stand a chance. the difference in my bro's gen3 turbo pre and post powerFC is immense without running extra boost.

esp in the top end where the beams head with it's vvti allows for some decent overlap of cams etc.

but yes, due to reasons a you've already mentioned it's the reason i ditched my conventional 3s head and went over board and bought a beams, only wished i'd just sourced a head now instead of a complete motor/gearbox package.

 

[Paluce]

As promised, Here's a few pics of the Beams exhaust cam in a GEN2 head. The cam caps arn't bolted up.

One thing to nothice, not to beat a dead horse, but the P/N on the Beams exhaust cam is 88460. same as the GEN3. It IS a beams cam because it has the hex in the middle, and it came with that beams exhaust cam gear, and beams seal pictured below. RT exhaust MUST have the same P/N as GEN3 ge. just like GEN2 and GEN3 3sgte have the same cam p/n. you can only tell by the number of pin holes on the side.

Gen3 3SGE intake cam and BEAMS exhaust cam

GEN3 3SGE intake cam P/N

BEAMS exhaust cam P/N notice the hex in the middle of the cam.

BEAMS exhaust cam gear and seal in the background. notice the slot, not a drilled hole of the alignment pin.

BTW, the 9.8mm of lift clears everywhere on this head but on one spot on position #4. a little bit of grinding is needed.

 

[MANDALAY]

I am sure you dont want me to post this but the Beams is 13502‑88560 100% sure

I only wish i had pictures with the numbers on the cam.

This is only a snip of the parts i ordered new. You can see the part number for the cam and you can see the trend that most numbers end 560.

Seals BTW are different numbers also. Dont know what else i can say.
One thing tho if i didnt have the correct number i wouldnt have got the part.
Second i checked with Toyota today and the number is -88560.


13050 1 13050-74020
13511 1 13501-88560
13512 1 13502-88560
13502 1 13503-88560
13505 1 13505-88560
13523P 1 13523-88301
13540 1 13540-88561
13568 1 13568-80015
13711 8 13711-88560
13715 8 13715-88560
13734 16 13734-88560
13741 16 13741-88560
13751 16 13751-88460
19183-88560 1 19183-88560
90105-10032 1 90105-10032
13511A 1 90250-04015
13511A 2 90250-04015
13512A 1 90250-05021
90341-27009 1 90341-27009
90402-12011 1 90402-12011
13711B 16 90501-36004
90901-19041 1 90901-19041
13711A (N01) 8 90913-02114
13711A (N02) 8 90913-02115
13741A 32 90913-03030
91512-61025 1 91512-G1025
91513-80840 2 91513-80840
13753 1 13753-88053

 

[MANDALAY]

100% sure you dont have the Beams cam sorry.

But the pulleys are the same on the earlier 3SGE's

Now the ONLY thing i can think off is that it was one of the few early Beams that were made as the Beams did get a review after about 3 months.

I have the chassis number of a GENUINE Japanese Factory Beams car
06341003 0112345 . It was given to me by a past member with the whole EPC for the car. When i search guess what the number is -88560

 

[3sgteftw]

mandalay, his exh cam is beams. my beams exh cam that i pulled from my unopened beams has the 88460. the intake has 88560.

also he will use the normal 3s cam seal not the beams cam seal for the exh. glenn uses normal 3s exh cam spec to make his 300/13mm cams for the exh side in the redtop.

 

[MANDALAY]

Intake 13501‑88560
Exhaust 13502‑88560

I checked with Toyota.

All i can say is , if that was the cam in a RT then its one of the earlier engines. Maybe the specs are the same ? But the numbers are definitely different..
Could also just be an upgrade number but i doubt it as the EPC clearly shows the number and my EPC will give subsequent upgraded numbers.

Again having said that you can see on my spread sheet what i ordered and received.

 

[3sgteftw]

part numbers do change/get superceded, i've ordered parts via numbers from toyodiy and been told the numbers changed or wrong.

the ecu that came with my engine, according to toyodiy is from the late 97on.

but yeh, just pointing out that although his cam has 88460, doesn't mean it isn't beams, the most telling whether it is or not is the lift of said cam.

 

[mr2racer7]

I put my heads away or i would help you out MANDALAY. Either way i am sure you are right and those are not beams cams. They would have more lift if they were.

 

[Paluce]

Thank you guys. as your original sheet indicated the P/N 88460 began in 96. it could be from an early 97 engine. Although I believe all RT exhaust cams are P/N 88460. only BT/GT VVTI cams went to P/N 88560. If someone has a beams RT pop the VC off for a sec and look at the exhaust cam. Maybe there was a change in 98, but i see no reason. sice the actual part would not have changed. 9.2mm of lift for all of them with a hex in the middle.