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if it is a subaru motor, it will be interesting to see what it gets. US hgas not had anything smaller than a 2.0 in quite a while. Even the 2.0 was only in the wrx as a turbo model, the smallest NA subaru has been the 2.5 for over 10 years. Anything NA smaller than the 2.5 would be a new entry to the US.
 

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By the time this Toyota/Scion finally comes out, I'll be making enough money to buy one. But I won't, because it keeps getting more and more diluted every time I hear news about it. First it was going to weigh under 2500lbs, now it's going to (maybe) weigh under 3000. It was going to have 200+hp, now it's going to be what, 150? It was going to be a boxer turbo, now N/A. Entry-level pricing would be in the $15k range, now $20k?

Sure, swapping a 2.5L STi motor would be cool, but I'm looking to buy a new, reliable, warrantied sports car that I can daily drive and save the MR2/Z for weekends. I don't have any interest in hacking up a brand new car!!!

For 20k in 2 years from now I can get myself a nice, used 370Z or STi, and I plan on it. Sorry Toyota. Make a club racer package like the S2000, Miata, or Solstice and my ears might perk up. Otherwise, I'm going to my other favorite automakers...
 

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Turbowned said:
Sure, swapping a 2.5L STi motor would be cool, but I'm looking to buy a new, reliable, warrantied sports car that I can daily drive and save the MR2/Z for weekends. I don't have any interest in hacking up a brand new car!!!
...
And the people that do this have more money than sense. Old cars are for hacking up and tuning, not new warrantied ones.
 

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scottgas said:
Um, the last time I checked, MK1s have cast iron control arms. Not cast aluminum.
Just went & checked with a magnet, and they are ferrous. My mistake, but still much higher quality than stamped steel or plastic.
 

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my 07 yaris i daily is really not that bad

i think about selling it to get something different but its paid off, and gets good gas mileage so i really cant complain. I just wish they had the 4 door hatch when i got my 3 door.

but for the most part, i doubt i would by any new toyota other then a 5 door liftback yaris, i doubt i would buy a scion, I had one and they really are worse then my yaris i drive now.

I think if i do end up selling it, my next purchase is going to be a truck, Owning a home, I realize many times how a truck could come in handy, esp with all the projects I have going on with it.

Ive been rocking Toyotas since 03, but now im starting to look outside the brand.... I wish they would reconnect back to their roots and have some solid Toyota's not the whole scion thing....
 

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filonin_2 said:
Just went & checked with a magnet, and they are ferrous. My mistake, but still much higher quality than stamped steel or plastic.
I don't think cast aluminum would be strong enough anyway. Vettes, NSX, etc have forged aluminum control arms.
 

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Yellow2 said:
No doubt, they have slipped but my 2010 Ltd Highlander is great. Nothing cheap about it, so far.
There's a LOT of stuff that's cheap about it.. You just haven't seen it yet. It's almost certainly not a car you want to hold onto for 10-15 years... Ditch it when the warranty is about to expire.

... Which reminds me.. Toyota has one of the WORST warranties in the car business today. After growing accustomed to working on Mitsubishis and Kias (10/100 powertrain and 50/60 basic).. Toyota is absolutely pathetic!
 

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Conor said:
There's a LOT of stuff that's cheap about it.. You just haven't seen it yet.
Such as?

Conor said:
It's almost certainly not a car you want to hold onto for 10-15 years...
Its an SUV thats meant for driving my family around the country, not a sports car with a potentially high resale value.

I think my point was missed. Compare my Highlander to a similar US suv. There is NOTHING cheap looking or feeling about it. From cargo space, to suspension to functionality.

I test drove every SUV made for 18 months before buying it (besides luxury Lexus') and it was by far the best.
 

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Lats night I was following my wife's 2004 RAV4 with @65k miles. The muffler is falling off. I went to see why and the hanger was a cheap welded on plate, not a bolt on like the MR2's. It broke at the bend in the hanger. The metal was too thin to weld it back with any strength. I now have a lovely RAV4 with a muffler hanging from bailing wire. Nice move Toyota! Don't expect the Scion vs. Toyota to effect this. Scion is not a "value" brand. It is just marketing hype. It seems like they may actually put better products in the Lexus line, but if the FT-86 becomes a Lexus it would cost $45k. It is a bit of a no-win as far as brand is concerned.
 

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DrWonderEyes said:
Damn Straight! Toyota puts more effort into the Lexus brand than the main brand that got them where they are today.

Example. The plastic door handles on camry's from 92 to 01 and corolla's 93 to 02. They are just low quality parts.

I owned an 07 Scion TC and some stuff was less than spectacular on it.
Never had a problem with the door handles on our 1999 camry. Fromm 2002 or so Toyota has gone down in quality imo. Cheaper materials, bigger gap between the interior panels, etc.
The cloth of the seats in the yaris at my work wears really quick. In our 99 camry it was like new after 250 000 miles.
 

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car makers are facing huge design decisions... well, the engineers are.
Make a car safe with all of the government required safety features. Check. Now 2000 pound car now weighs 2800 pounds.
Make the car clean burning, requires a very thin powerband, which then requires a 200-speed gearbox to make the damn thing move with any speed to 60. Weight now 3200 pounds.
Fat Americans require big ass seats, more headroom, more rear legroom, big fat knobs and switches for the big fat fingers to operate, and 300 cup holders for the big fat babies they have. This adds even more weight.. 3800 pounds.
Now because the high hp, heavy, high speed car now requires bigger wheel bearings and heavier duty parts because it now reaches speeds of upwards of 140mph. More weight.
Then you need to add the Yo-Boy 20-inch rims. Can't be lightweight, because the yo-boy that lives in bum-____ with pot holes every 13 feet, and road kill every mile will destroy a lightweight wheel faster than a Californian can forget the 1st Amendment.
So more weight.
Americans don't look at the details. They see ads stating the car can go for 500 miles before filling up with fuel. So that 20-gallon fuel tank adds weight, size and the weight of the fuel...

So engineers look at different ways to decrease weight on this heavy car.

SAE Automotive Engineering Magazine looks at this issue every year. It is a very interesting story that has come down to automakers having a really hard time finding ways to save weight while keeping the car safe for idiots, comfy for fat people, clean burning so that Green Peace stays off the corporations front door step and stays reliable so that the company can stay solvent.

Stamped parts are a huge weight savings, and can be made very strong, if not stronger than a cast part in the designed motion of said part. Of course if you try and jack up a stamped part with the weight of the vehicle on it, then yes it will most likely bend, because the part was not designed to have the load of the car on it, with a jack under that.
But, these are really good parts. Just looking at them with an untrained eye may make you think they are cheaper. But now you are trained...
 

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Bill,
That would be great, but if it can't support the weight of the muffler for 6 years in Texas (no salt etc), I would say that they have gone too cheap.
 

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why do you still have a car after 6-years? That is so un-american? Can't keep those factory workers employed if you don't buy a new car every 4-years.
Or, we have a rule in my house... if and when we start seeing our current model car in the local low income housing district, it is time to buy a new one :)
 

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I would say somthing about not wanting to own anything that Bill Strong has up on blocks, but I resemble that comment and don't want to start any trouble.;)
The reason we still have that car is that the essential systems of the car are still top notch. The motor etc are great. We only had to replace the battery this year and that only for fear of being stuck, it did not strand us and I dropped it into a MKI aftre I removed it from teh RAV4.
My comment is not that Toyota is bad, but that Scion and Toyota have a very similar level of quality, and neither of them really meet my expectations after working on MKI and MKII MR2's. I wonder if they would be Lexus models if they were released in the current vehicle structure. If they are reintroduced, I think that there will be a prejudice to keep them Toyotas, but if the MR2 were a brand new model (especially the MKII) in Toyota's line-up of today, I think it might very likely be badged a Lexus. I think it is pretty close to an IS in that way.
 

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Bill Strong said:
why do you still have a car after 6-years? That is so un-american? Can't keep those factory workers employed if you don't buy a new car every 4-years.
Or, we have a rule in my house... if and when we start seeing our current model car in the local low income housing district, it is time to buy a new one :)
sadly, I only see mk1 and mk2's in "low income housing" around here.. the "rich kids" all drive new stuff.
 

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I couldnt care less if its scion. scion ppl may not be the "coolest crowd" but they get cars noticed and then parts for them soon follow. Also arent all the scion made 100% in japan so biuld quality should be good. ill just be glad to see something from toyota that isnt boring. i love their trucks but their cars not so much.
 
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