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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking to get around 250~275 whp out of the engine as this seems to be the threshold before additional engine management is needed. I'm pretty sure the stock turbo is shot on my car and I want to replace it? Should I look for a replacement stock turbo, CT20b? Can someone direct me on route that won't break the bank? Places to buy, what to buy for a reliable, moderate boost application that can handle 20min stints in HDPE's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
93smgturbo said:
No doubt, either a ct27 or a ct20b.
Yeah, I'm looking at ATS right now, this CT27 is nice! Pretty reasonable too. The CT20b's easy to come by as well? This was the stock setup in later model MR's correct? Where can I find those reasonably priced?
 

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CT20b's are easy to come by and go for about 600-750. They are almost all used because they never came on engines in america. Only Gen3+ engines in other countries from 1994+.
 

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shoot you can get a td06 20g for 700 bucks, i dont understand why people waste that much money on stock turbos when you can get a turbo for the same price that makes more power at lower boost and leaves room for more improvement so you dont to do it twice
 

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HAHA, $700? Tell me where and I will buy one right now. Yes you can buy the turbo for $700. What about the $250 adapter plate? The $150 oil lines? The $300 downpipe? Oh thats about $1400 so far and thats with an internal wastegate. If you dont want creep you then need to get an external wastegate, oops theres $250 more. Then you need to have somebody make the external wastegate piping for you, there's another $100. So lets see, you are now up to$1750. Or you could save the headache and trouble and just buy ATS's kit which is $2,000. Now we are a long cry from the price of a stock turbo.
 

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actualy i purchased my Td06 20g, external wastegate, water cooled for 576 brand new. i can post a pic of the bill if you don't beleive me
 

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I don't know why a 20g was brought into the picture anyway, too laggy for road racing IMO and probably a lot of others would feel the same way. Hes only looking for around 250-275 at the wheels.
 

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I hate to get back on point specially when some one is taking such a beating. But if you are talking about real road racing as in lap after lap then you definitly want to get into a bigger turbo than stock. Unless you are running an A2W intercooler heat soak is going to rear it's ugly head pretty quick. A larger turbo will help keep the temperatures down.
 

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kyle (ncturbo2) all you bought was the turbo, they are talking about the complete kit including the extenal wasegate, oil lines etc. As for what turbo to get i would say the ct27. that is what i am looking at myself. I would choose this over the ct20b because it has a little bit more power capability and it is "new" compared to a used ceramic turbine ct20b. the ct20b is a great turbo though and a bit cheaper than the ct27
 

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93smgturbo said:
If you dont want creep you then need to get an external wastegate, oops theres $250 more. Then you need to have somebody make the external wastegate piping for you, there's another $100. So lets see, you are now up to$1750.
Or you can get someone to port it out for $100 and call it quits! No need to pay $350 for a fix that can be done for $100.

But it's tooo big a turbo for only 250 - 275 hp and laggy.

For 250-275 for track use, I would take a CT20b, CT27 and HKS TD05-16g. All can make 260 hp at 16-17 psi with some mild tuning.

Su
 

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KBlake said:
Prove it. Dynos talk, BS walks.
Hum .. how do I Dyno prove that there is no boost creep after a $100 porting mod?

If you're interested, I will give you the name of the person who did the porting on a Greddy TD06-20g for $100 and the owner never complained about boost creep afterwards. His boardname is Tom94T. For anyone interested, you can email him for the service.

Su
 

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NC Turbo2 said:
actualy i purchased my Td06 20g, external wastegate, water cooled for 576 brand new. i can post a pic of the bill if you don't beleive me

how about showing me the link so i can buy one too instead of showing the bill... :thumbup
 

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Your cheapest solution is $450 to rebuild your stock CT-26 and upgrade to a 46-trim TO4E wheel. For a little more you can have a CT-27 or CT-20B both of which have the potential to make more power. Any of these are adequate for 250 rwhp.
 

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From the original post I'm assuming that the track use will be very minimal and limited to typical 20 minute HPDE sessions. From what I understand, stock turbos intended to run at maybe 10 psi really aren't all that happy at 15 psi. They put up with it for short periods, and will produce the power, but they are forced to run at much higher than intended shaft speeds and pressures that will reduce the turbos life and possibly even result in it grenading and sending turbo bits into the engine. 15 psi on the street or even at the drag strip only strains the turbo for very short periods of a few seconds at a time. Even a novice driver at an HPDE is going to heap months of abuse onto the turbo in just a couple of sessions. Advanced drivers are even worse as they only use two techniques...full throttle, full brake, then repeat.

As Jvillian mentioned, heat also becomes a major issue. As that small turbo is overworked at higher boost, it does so inefficiently and heats the compressed air much more than a turbo that was designed to run at the higher boost and power levels. This heat overwhelms the stock (or even upgraded) intercooler and the result is unusually high air temps going into the engine. This heat is one cause of detonation and higher boost is another. Your knock sensor will hopefully intervene and retard timing to cut power, or dump fuel, or whatever, before the engine blows. If the knock sensor pops, like mine has twice, hopefully you will have seen the CEL and realize you have a problem before damage is done.

I've always read here that the CT20b is a little fragile with a thinner shaft and delicate turbine blades on the ceramic model. It will be pushed hard at high boost and perhaps not a good candidate for the track if what I've heard is correct. I haven't got a handle on the CT27 yet, and would need more input that it is up to the task before buying it for the track. Larger turbos like the Street Brawler 46 and TD06 were designed to run the higher boost pressure and power. They will lag a little compared to your CT26, but that's the price you pay for more power with only basic mods, and you will quickly learn how to minimize its effect on the track by proper gear selection, maintaining some boost through the turns, and easing into the throttle earlier on corner exit.

My very low mileage CT26 wore out in record time once I started using it at the track. The intermittent scraping sound was my first clue, increasing oil consumption was the second, and the "black flag" from oil spray out the tail pipe was the third.

Track use is probably harder on stock turbo engines than NAs, and we can make it a lot worse when we modify them with higher boost. Use an upgraded IC, and race gas and/or water injection to help reduce intake and engine temps, and to control detonation. And consider the short and long term value that a better turbo provides. And if all that is beyond your current budget, then consider holding off on the HPDE days for a while. You'll surely get hooked and will quickly discover you need the best mods you can find! Check out the road racing forum too. Good luck.

Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bruce H. said:
Use an upgraded IC, and race gas and/or water injection to help reduce intake and engine temps, and to control detonation. And consider the short and long term value that a better turbo provides. And if all that is beyond your current budget, then consider holding off on the HPDE days for a while. You'll surely get hooked and will quickly discover you need the best mods you can find! Check out the road racing forum too. Good luck.

Bruce
Thanks, a lot of good stuff in there. Yes, I've read up on the aquamist systems and upgraded engine fan shrouds. I was planning on getting koracing's dual fan setup for starters, what options are out there for upgraded IC's??
 
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