MR2 Owners Club Forum banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Jim McClelland (sp?) has a rally MK1. I have an 85 hardtop that I use for rallycross/semi-DD. I'm thinking about either setting this one up for rally or getting another one and setting it up for rally. That won't happen for another year or two at least.

Where are you from and what are you looking to do with the car? How deep are you looking to go is basically what I'm wondering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i have a 91 t top n/a and i am working on building my 3sgte i live in illinios and would be building a rally/dd because it is my only car but i would be building it for rally and mildly comfortable on the street, possibly piecing together my own suspension.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
The problem with rallying an mr2 is that its banned from most classes since it has a mid engine. That makes it alot faster than the rest, and thats why it is banned.
Before I started building my MR2 for road racing, I visited the local Rallycross track quite often. I managed to lap it 10 seconds faster than the Rally prepared rental BMW 325s.
I ran on rather worn winter tires, the rental cars use proper gravel tires.

The very weak link on the SW20 MR2 is the front upper shock mount.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
looking throught the 2008 scca rulebook i see nothing that states a mid rear car is banned i may be wrong but i see nothing that is even discriminating towards front mount engines the pr and m2 classes are the 2 that i am looking to compeat in if i should decide to rally my 2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,690 Posts
Kambu said:
The problem with rallying an mr2 is that its banned from most classes since it has a mid engine. That makes it alot faster than the rest, and thats why it is banned.
Before I started building my MR2 for road racing, I visited the local Rallycross track quite often. I managed to lap it 10 seconds faster than the Rally prepared rental BMW 325s.
I ran on rather worn winter tires, the rental cars use proper gravel tires.

The very weak link on the SW20 MR2 is the front upper shock mount.
Source?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Actually, the only thing rally that SCCA sanctions is Road Rally and Rallycross. They no longer offer stage rally. Rally-America is who you would need to look at for the rules governing stage rally in the states. Or NASA, but they aren't worth the time of day.

As far as outlawed classes, you are thinking of the old Group B cars. They were 600hp, 1500lb cars that would drive faster than the mind could comprehend. Just because it's mid-engine doesn't make it faster.

mr-2-tyler --- Are you building a rallycross/DD or a stage rally/DD? If you are thinking about taking your only car and making it into a stage rally car, DON'T!!!! Stage rally you need to have a vehicle that you can walk away from (financially) if you you wreck it. Buy yourself another vehicle for a DD if this is what you are thinking about doing. Trust me, one of my very good friends rally'd his Talon that he was still making payments on and ended up totally it on stage. Now this is stage rally that I'm talking about. Driving through the woods at 100mph. Not rallycross where you are running through cones in a field at 35-40mph. Also, if you are going to rallycross your mr-2, piecing together your own suspension will most likely bump you up to m2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
I am not sure on the US rules, sorry I didnt specify that.
It is banned in most European\Scandinavian rallies. Not because it is too fast to drive, but because it is unfair against other drivers. They issued the ban I believe 2-3 years ago, because tuned Volkswagen beetles were becoming way too fast compared to the more common front engined cars.
AND YES, Mid engine does make it faster, ALOT faster.
It also makes it harder to drive for the inexperienced, but nevertheless if driven to its limit it will be faster.

ixtlann - Havent checked the rules, but asked the local Rally team for the rallycross track laptimes, and they told me that Mid engined cars are outlawed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Matchbx said:
Actually, the only thing rally that SCCA sanctions is Road Rally and Rallycross. They no longer offer stage rally. Rally-America is who you would need to look at for the rules governing stage rally in the states. Or NASA, but they aren't worth the time of day.

As far as outlawed classes, you are thinking of the old Group B cars. They were 600hp, 1500lb cars that would drive faster than the mind could comprehend. Just because it's mid-engine doesn't make it faster.

mr-2-tyler --- Are you building a rallycross/DD or a stage rally/DD? If you are thinking about taking your only car and making it into a stage rally car, DON'T!!!! Stage rally you need to have a vehicle that you can walk away from (financially) if you you wreck it. Buy yourself another vehicle for a DD if this is what you are thinking about doing. Trust me, one of my very good friends rally'd his Talon that he was still making payments on and ended up totally it on stage. Now this is stage rally that I'm talking about. Driving through the woods at 100mph. Not rallycross where you are running through cones in a field at 35-40mph. Also, if you are going to rallycross your mr-2, piecing together your own suspension will most likely bump you up to m2.
I had planned for just compeating in rallycross because i really like to have my car in one piece to dd. If i really get into it and have enough love for the sport to switch plans completly i will get a second car and build my 2 from the bottom up, thanks for clarifing that i didnt know the actual name difference.

i am deciding between the classes right now and going to make fully sure that im not going to end up building my car and then find out its outlawed.

plus this might make it more fun/bearable to drive in snow for now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Kambu said:
AND YES, Mid engine does make it faster, ALOT faster.
It also makes it harder to drive for the inexperienced, but nevertheless if driven to its limit it will be faster.
Please explain yourself a little better. Please cite specific examples because JUST by putting the engine in midship it does not make it faster (all other things staying the same).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Placing the engine in the middle\Rear, allows for the car to have alot better weight distribution, Making the car handle better. A car with Front engine has alot of the weight on front wheels, giving more traction to the front. In a RWD car that gives you traction going into the corner, but as soon as you get on the throttle, it gets very "Tail happy" meaning that, the rear wheel just slides along, and the acceleration isnt very good.
If you move the engine to the rear, you will get alot better acceleration out of corners.

The time spent in corners in racing, is very short compared to the time on the straights. So, if you drive the corner lets say 5mph slower, but since you can accelerate alot better out of the corner, you will be about 2mph faster for the whole straight, this leads to alot better times.

Real life examples are the Lancia Stratos, Peugeot 205 Turbo (Both B-Group rally cars), or the old Porsche 911 Rally cars.

Another good solution is front engined front wheel drive cars, but they are still inferior to mid engined rear wheel drive cars.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,115 Posts
Yeah ultimately mid engine has so far proven to be the best setup for certain types of racing. Open wheel and prototypes for example. While mid engine cars had their time at the top in rally, the all wheel drive cars, Audi etc, proved faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,321 Posts
Toyota's rally car apparently one was AWD the other RWD
from groupbrally.com


"When Toyota realised that the Celica Twincam Turbo wasn't very competitive outside of Africa, Toyota Team Europe (TTE) started work on a new contender - a 600 horsepower Mk 1 MR2. The rally car was codenamed "222D" and was being developed for Group S and possibly Group B. A ground up tube chassis car was constructed. There were three produced, one with the engine mounted transversely with RWD, and two with the engine mounted longitudinally. One of these was RWD while the other was AWD using a custom gearbox manufactured by Xtrac. With 600+hp and AWD, the car resembled the MR2 in appearance only.

These were not true Group S cars however, as the Group S rules limited engine capacity to 1.2L. Instead they were hybrid Group B / Group S cars. One was designed for tarmac rallies, while the other was suited to gravel rallies. All three motors were turbocharged, and had a displacement of 2.0 L. While not known for sure, the engine could have been the either 4T-GTE as used in the celica rally car preceding it, or it possibly could have been the famous 503E used in the GTP cars.

It is rumored that one of these was given to a VIP to drive around during a recent WRC event in Germany. There are recent photos of both a black and a white MR2 assumed to both still be alive. I have read on other sites that 2 of the 3 were destroyed during testing. Who knows what's still out there? One member going by the name of Ralf claims to have spolen on the phone with Mr. Boetcher, the chief of TTE who told him during a telephone call recently that it is possible to buy this car, but he had no idea what it will cost."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
AWD configurations (whether mid or front engine) are far superior to RWD or FWD in MOST rally conditions. There are some instances where front wheel drive has actually proved better than AWD.

I believe it is all in the way you set up for the corner. Each setup has it's own unique way to set for each particular corner. And each driver has their own drivetrain setup that lends itself best to them. Some people can outdrive an awd car with a fwd (it's been proven over and over again) or even a rwd.

And one of the best handling production cars of the 80's was a 944. Front engine-Rear wheel drive setup. But they did a trick and put the transmission in the rear giving it a 51/49 weight distribution. Putting too much weight in the rear can also be a hinderance when overdriven.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
i did see that car but it is not a true (what at least i consider) street/rally car i contacted jim tonight asking him a few questions i will post when i hear back from him/his team
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
8. Group 5 Class: Vehicles must be 2WD, normally-aspirated,
turbocharged or supercharged models sold globally in minimum
quantities of 1000. Drive configuration must remain as originally
manufactured (front-engine, front-drive; rear-engine, rear-drive; etc.).
:thumbup
im legal if i decide to build for rally sport later on
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,115 Posts
Group 5 cars are pretty damn fast. A turbo Mk2 would be a blast to rally. I have a 93 turbo and have had quite a few dirt miles in it. It was alot of fun and quite controllable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
the only thing i havent read in the rules if anyone knows is if i can legally do a turbo swpa for anyclass since it came as a production option but not for my exact car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Yes, AWD cars are alot faster than mid engined, rwd cars, no question about it.
The talk about FWD cars being faster in some situation is well, yeah it is true in some situations, but those situations dont exist in rally. They are quicker in very short Ice races.

Yes, some people can drive over an awd with a fwd.. that doenst mean that the FWD car is faster, that just means that the driver of the AWD car cant drive.



Just wanted to add this picture:
This is Marko Martin, since he was far back because of some previous accident he just decided to jump the car as far as possible... he jumped 180 feet. Its now known as "The mother of all jumps"
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top