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Discussion Starter #1
Hello, I'm thinking of buying an aftermarket camshaft to my 3sge gen 2 engine but i could use some information before proceeding.

-Does the engine have to be pulled out of the engine bay?

-Is it a Overhead Camshaft or a Overhead Valve type in my engine?

-How much would it roughly cost to have it installed by a car tuning business?

-Some general information when installing an aftermarket camshaft? (Negative/Positive things)


/Tougetoshi
 

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Double overhead camshafts.
Engine does not have to be removed to install new cams.

Cost.. ask them. Also depends what exactly you want them to do. When changing the camshafts its the ideal time to change cambelt/tensioners/idler and water/oil pumps if they need doing. Also to get maximum benefit you might want to get adjustable cam gears and get the cams dialed in on the dyno, this takes time and therefore costs money. And then there is shimming the valves for proper clearances on the new camshafts.

What ECU are you running? changing cams changes engine performance. If it is a fairly mild cam upgrade then the standard computer might be okay with it, if its a more radical cam(s) then you will need to address changes in fuelling and iginition timing requirements somehow. The simplest and crudest way to do this probably an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and adjust the static ignition timing to keep it safe across the rev range. The proper way is an aftermarket ECU and time on the dyno to get it tuned to get the most out of the cam.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you for the answer.

cleared up a few things!

running stock ecu right now.

got my eyes on 2 different camshafts. can't decide... toda racing high power profile camshaft and camshafts from piper cams europe.

btw what do you mean by a fairly mild cam and a more radical cam upgrade?
 

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Well, if you are looking at this page : Camshaft - TODA RACING , the Sw20 cams box on the left then the milder cams are at the top, the wilder cams are down the list.

The bottom cams, 320degrees and 10.8mm lift will not fit your head without modification, and are for a completely built race motor with heavy duty springs, shim under bucket, high strength retainers and a strong bottom end, they will probably idle at 2500rpm, not make any torque till 6k rpm and really sing from 8 to 10k rpm and make 300+hp if the rest of the bits are up to it... and any engine running them probably needs a rebuild every hundred hours of running. Basically - a complete circuit race engine only sort of cam.

The top 3 or 4 cams on that list might be able to be run on the standard computer, But they also wont get you a lot of extra power.

Some serious over simplification but the basics are:
More degrees = valves open longer = more air into engine, but they move the torque curve to the higher rev range and usually kill low rev torque.
More lift = more potential flow without moving the torque curve into the higher revs (mostly)

The standard cams according to google are 244 degrees and 8.5mm lift on both intake and exhaust.

Maybe go find some celica forums where you probably find some guys that have played with NA 3sges and have experience with cams on gen2 sge motors and what works.
Also read this thread and do some searching for similar threads. http://www.mr2oc.com/60-normally-aspirated/152693-finding-right-cams-3s-ge-help.html
 

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Ya, I've played around with NA cams quite a bit.

Yes, GEN2 3sge cams are 244 duration, 8.5mm lift. not much of an upgrade over a standard GEN3 intake cam which is 240 deg 8.7mm lift... it's a bit of an upgrade on the exhaust side.

NA cams that ARE a great upgrade are the GEN3 (Rev 3/4/5) intake cams from a Manual Trans car. They are 252 duration, and 9.7mm lift. run a pair of these intake cams, dial them in to about 110/112 cam lobe centerlines. and the car loves them. I'm still building power up to 7500rpm and it helped my spool. (I spool a GT3076 by 3300-3400rpm)

You may need to grind just a hair of the head on the intake side so the cam lobe clears... It's very little. Exhaust side usually clears. The car has the smallest lope at Idle, just to let you know a set of cams are in there, but not annoying (o some people) like the 264 or 272 cams.


Cost to install.... depends on where in the world you live :)
 

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Ya, I've played around with NA cams quite a bit.

Yes, GEN2 3sge cams are 244 duration, 8.5mm lift. not much of an upgrade over a standard GEN3 intake cam which is 240 deg 8.7mm lift... it's a bit of an upgrade on the exhaust side.

NA cams that ARE a great upgrade are the GEN3 (Rev 3/4/5) intake cams from a Manual Trans car. They are 252 duration, and 9.7mm lift. run a pair of these intake cams, dial them in to about 110/112 cam lobe centerlines. and the car loves them. I'm still building power up to 7500rpm and it helped my spool. (I spool a GT3076 by 3300-3400rpm)

You may need to grind just a hair of the head on the intake side so the cam lobe clears... It's very little. Exhaust side usually clears. The car has the smallest lope at Idle, just to let you know a set of cams are in there, but not annoying (o some people) like the 264 or 272 cams.


Cost to install.... depends on where in the world you live :)
Hi, I am looking for a cheap upgrade on my cams and need of some advice please.

I own a 1990 Mr2 Rev1 NA 3SGE 156/158BHP. (Celica / engine code st182 / known as gen2 3sge with ACIS)

Current stock Cams:
2. gen 3SGE (165ps):
In: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 7/57)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

From research I have done so far, it looks like I can use cams from a manual transmission version of Rev 3+ Revision 3 1994-1996 173bhp (Celica / engine code ST202)

Proposed Cams to Swap from Rev3 3SGE to Rev1 3SGE (same as rev2 3SGE) Mr2

Option 1: Staight swap? Will Standard ECU manage this?
3.gen 3SGE M/T (180ps):
In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 240deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 53/7)

The above post mentions run a pair of these "intake" cams, does this mean source two intake cams 252deg, 9.8mm lift ..

Option 2 - is this possible?
3.gen 3SGE M/T (180ps):
In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)

Or do I keep my Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7) and just replace with Rev3 3SGE In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)

Option 3: Is this possible and is it better than option 1?
In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65) **from rev3+ ?
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7) **Current 3sge stock?

It would be great if someone who has done this before confirm if this a straight swap without any modifications (no buckets, shims, grinding?) and the best working setup option for extra power for on the drag strip :).



Thanks

Steve
 

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I have the dual gen3 3SGE cam setup. Since it's an intake cam on the exhaust side, you have to run it basically 180 degrees out from "straight up", which means degreeing the motor with to get the lobe center to around 110-114 degrees. The GE and GTE motors run the exact same springs despite the cam differences (same Toyota part numbers)

Any cam that's not the exact cam you have will require shims. We're talking clearances within thousandths of an inch or millimeter, no cam will be exactly what you have.

But that aside, don't put money in to an NA motor... They're really not worth the time or money from a performance stand point.
 

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Thankyou for the update, I have purchased two complete manual Rev3+ heads with the large intake cams.
I need to pass some basic information on to my mechanic so he can complete the work for me, would you be able to provide a simple summery of what he need to do.. does he reuse the shims, buckets, springs from rev3+ head or current rev2 and also any timing details I need to give him as I have no clue, just want a little more power for the drag strip. Currently running 15.1 in my Rev1 NA. I have a 4-1 manifold to go on it also. Cheers
 

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With 2x 3sge cams, the intake can be installed straight up (match the cam and cam cap notches) for a 119 deg centerline. Advance 2-3 cam degrees to get it to 115-113 centerline, a little more performance oriented. You'll probably lose a bit of idle vacuum.

For the exhaust side, line the notches up, then pick a spot on the gear and rotate the cam 21 teeth or so. Then you'll need to advance 5 degrees or so to get to a 111 degree centerline.

Every engine is a little different so ymmv
 
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