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Discussion Starter #1
OK I'm at wits end with my stand alone.. I've got a feeling that once I get over this initial learning curve It'll come more into focus but for now...

first, I switched to map and AIT and reset the breakpoints of RPM and load within reason to gain resolution. Then copied the basemap numbers that applied to those numbers (0-7500RPM and ~-12 to ~22PSI values) to the adjusted tables.

without getting into the details of my confusion, I don't understand why a basemap would be at least 10:1 on everywhere on the table. I'm not too far from stock (seems like aftermarket parts would cause lean conditions anyway) and had hoped this would land me close enough to begin finetuning but the O2 planted on 10- SO.......

Questions:
Is the fuel basemap produced via the VE characteristics of the motor with X% amount of fuel added for safety? If this is true would I be better off doing a percentage difference from say 10.2:1 and 14.5:1 and adjusting the whole map by that percentage to get in the ballpark.

Did anyone have a similar experience with the basemap and how did you fix it?

Rereading this I realize that if I've got the wrong idea Its going to make me look really stupid but what the hell. Fire away, I need some direction because cell by cell tuning via viewing the log isn't going so well.

Thanks guys
 

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Discussion Starter #3
yeap... so you didn't have the same experience?
 

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I just readjusted the basemap for injectors, took a bunch of timing out, and got over to a dyno for tuning. I don't remember having to make wholesale changes like you are describing. Is your FPR set higher?
 

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What is different on your car vs stock? If you have bigger injectors and have not changed the microsec/bit, you are likely going to run out of resolution on the fuel map when using the AEM basemap.

Have you changed MAP sensors and adjusted that correctly? A few more details on how your setup is changed from stock would help.

Email me your map and setup if you want, then perhaps I will get a better idea what is going on.
 

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I noticed something along these lines, and perhaps somebody can clarify.

If you open the baseline map in pro, and then go to "Setup -> Notes", it lists the modifications performed to the test vehicle that was used to perform the initial calibrations. Notice it lists nothing about conversion to speed density.

Now, in this same map, if you go to "templates -> setup" and bring up the base settings for that particular calibration, you'll notice in the upper left, "Options - MAP sensor" has "Speed Density" checked.

My question is: are they really setting the ecu to read the signal from the AFM but just calling it "speed density", or did they really change over to a MAP and IAT sensor setup and forget to list it in the notes?

This applies to me since I am going to be tuning another car soon and would like to retain the stock AFM setup (not convert to speed density).

Thanks!
 

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Spoolby said:
Fire away, I need some direction because cell by cell tuning via viewing the log isn't going so well.
SpyderVenom said:
I just readjusted the basemap for injectors, took a bunch of timing out, and got over to a dyno for tuning. I don't remember having to make wholesale changes like you are describing. Is your FPR set higher?
I think he is implying that he doesn't plan on tuning on the dyno, he plans on tuning via the logs only. Not in his best interest (If I'm understanding correctly).
 

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Justin311 said:
I noticed something along these lines, and perhaps somebody can clarify.

If you open the baseline map in pro, and then go to "Setup -> Notes", it lists the modifications performed to the test vehicle that was used to perform the initial calibrations. Notice it lists nothing about conversion to speed density.

Now, in this same map, if you go to "templates -> setup" and bring up the base settings for that particular calibration, you'll notice in the upper left, "Options - MAP sensor" has "Speed Density" checked.

My question is: are they really setting the ecu to read the signal from the AFM but just calling it "speed density", or did they really change over to a MAP and IAT sensor setup and forget to list it in the notes?

This applies to me since I am going to be tuning another car soon and would like to retain the stock AFM setup (not convert to speed density).

Thanks!

In the application information for the MR2, and you will see the Load input listed as "MAP". They are not using the stock AFM in the base map, nor is the AEM setup to use it. Why anyone would want to keep that thing in the car with an EMS is beyond me. We can debate all day long where it runs out of resolution, where it becomes a restriction, etc. But the fact remains that yes it will max out, yes it is big and ugly, and no I don't want it in my engine bay anymore given the chance to remove it.

I guess if someone wants to retain airflow based metering, you can put a Supra hot wire in there and tune with that. The AEM can work with that just fine.
 

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John Reed said:
In the application information for the MR2, and you will see the Load input listed as "MAP". They are not using the stock AFM in the base map, nor is the AEM setup to use it. Why anyone would want to keep that thing in the car with an EMS is beyond me. We can debate all day long where it runs out of resolution, where it becomes a restriction, etc. But the fact remains that yes it will max out, yes it is big and ugly, and no I don't want it in my engine bay anymore given the chance to remove it.

I guess if someone wants to retain airflow based metering, you can put a Supra hot wire in there and tune with that. The AEM can work with that just fine.

Ah, well perhaps you will see the point when I explain my intentions, since a little birdy told me somebody is going to make a second harness for their beater to use the same motec box ;) .....

I already have the 91 AEM controlling my built motor, on my car that only comes out on weekends or track days, but I have a second daily driver 91 MR2. I want to retain the ability of the DD to run the stock ECU should I want both cars driven simultaneously, but I want to have the luxury of the AEM on the DD as well. I refuse to spend another $1500 on an AEM box when I've got one sitting unused in my garage all week, so I wanted to be able to simply unplug it from the race car and plug it into the daily driver, load the correct calibration.

You have just given me some very bad news, however, so now I will have to rethink my plan :(
 

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Well, that clears it up. Just run it on the stock turbo pressure sensor, which is how the AEM base map is setup! :) I ran one in my friends bone stock MR2 when I borrowed it for a couple weeks, just for the hell of it! LOL When I gave it back I plugged the stock ECU back in and off he went. This car had absolutely NO modifications, and I didn't change anything to put the AEM in. Of course, adding an air temp sensor would be good, but not required. And the stock MAP sensor only goes to around 18psi, but that is fine for a stock turbo. The stock AFM can just sit there, but it won't be doing anything.

I thought you were building a car and "wanted" to use the AFM vs speed density.



John
 

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Justin311 said:
Ah, well perhaps you will see the point when I explain my intentions, since a little birdy told me somebody is going to make a second harness for their beater to use the same motec box ;) .....

Hell, my Motec is in a beater already! :smile: Maybe Aaron is going to put his in his Tacoma. ;)



John
 

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LOL, I suppose it is. :)

I picked up my Motec a few years back for educational purposes, and simply put it into the car I had at the time (and still drive today). Just a simple Mk1 20V, which makes a perfect daily driver. It is actually in pretty nice shape, but I still call it my beater car. LOL I just put gas in it and change the oil once in a while. It rewards me with up to 40mpg and is actually fairly sporty to drive.



John
 

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Silvertop. I never ran it on the stock ECU, so I cannot say. I do have much better control of my VVT than the stock ECU does. I have mapped mine out 3D, with a much smoother transistion than the stock ECU. I also picked up a fair amount of torque down low compared to how it was when I simply copied the stock strategy.

I have dyno'd a best of 135whp with a bone stock, straight off the pallet from japan silvertop, complete with stock airbox assy (but no airflow meter of course) and OEM S/C muffler adapted to the 20V header. I actually have not seen many 20V dyno's to compare to, but I was happy with it. Plus it gets great mileage and it passes local emissions!


John
 

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Discussion Starter #19
alright folks back on topic.. How are the basemaps produced?

Also why is the timing so damn aggressive?
 

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Spoolby said:
How are the basemaps produced?
I thought I had answered your question up in the 6th post :confused:

Justin311 said:
If you open the baseline map in pro, and then go to "Setup -> Notes", it lists the modifications performed to the test vehicle that was used to perform the initial calibrations.
I can save you the trouble, however. The box was tuned on a stock MR2, with the exception of an "aftermarket exhaust". It doesn't say which kind.

Spoolby said:
Why is the timing so damn aggressive?
Nobody can really answer which tuning strategy they were using when they tuned this vehicle, other than the fact that it is ultra conservative, in order to protect them legally and protect you from blowing up your car. You might get one of the admins on the AEM Forum to help you, but that is doubtful :(

Your best bet would be to send the map and some logs to john, as that was a very generous offer he gave you. He normally charges $800 per day to look at logs and analyze calibrations :thumbup
 
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