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What "extra" about the 2GR needs to be done that a gen 4/5 3S-GTE wouldn't also need to be done?

The average engine swap (not engine replacement) is not a weekend affair for most people IMO. Honestly, there's no way I'd sign up for going from a 5S-FE to a gen 4/5 3S-GTE in only one weekend start to finish, and this isn't my first rodeo.
I did a 3SGE long block engine replacement in 12 hours from running to running. But like you say, a swap is not something that can be done in 2 days straight for most people.

Regardless there are vendors supplying all parts for 3SGTE and 2GR swap to make them very easy to swap in. It's up to the end user on who they want to execute the swap. What 'additions' they want to make or modifications to a working swap they do.

For me, I've had the engine swap idea plan hatched 8 years ago. I got my GEN4 engine over 2 years ago and I still have a few bits to get sorted. But granted my swap is not 'standard' so things are taking longer to get everything together ready for the 3SGE to come out and the 3SGTE to go in and run.
 

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An engine REPLACEMENT is just turning wrenches and everything falls back into place as it came out unless something breaks.

An engine SWAP is replacing a ton of stuff, and generally you run into "project gotchas" - poor planning, extra work you didn't plan for, stuff just doesn't work out for a variety of reasons etc.

I feel some people confuse a REPLACEMENT with a SWAP - and they're very different things. The spectrum of work involve in a swap can also vary by a huge degree. But I'd put a gen 4/5 3S-GTE and a 2GR-FE at about the same difficulty.
 

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Ok guys. We get the point. No need to turn this into a mini flame war.
@RePete @DefSport @ztarchitecht
Lets be helpful to the OP and offer ways to get them a better engine regardless of 3S or 2GR. (y)
I feel like pedaling a very “scary to a noob” statement like a very common swap “not being bolt on”, then denying any discussion to the contrary goes against helping the OP.

I’ll just state the 3S route isn’t near as cheap as it used to be, and the Gen 4 engines are extremely old to be coming from Japan from a non-sports car. I’d be wary of it just from that reason alone. The odds of the engine having major issues or needing a lot of TLC are very high given the age. When they were $1k swaps and 5 years newer, decent deal.

Now they’re way more, and no longer $1k for a swap.

The 2GR also puts out less torque than a 18-20 psi Gen 4, so it’s more likely your S54 trans will survive.
 

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Well, that truce didn't last long. 20 minutes? Well, I'm not lying down on this.

Jerking around a newb w/ toss-away words like 'swap' and 'bolt-in' don't help either. The options are there and presented, that's good. But one option isn't nearly as 'convenient 'as the other, all should know this.
 

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You're right, the gen3/4/5 is way less convenient here. Requiring sourcing a good condition 15-30 year old engine and parts from overseas, and with the later models requiring either a standalone ecu or sending your ecu to be deimmobilized, modifying the harness or sending it in to wiregap or woodsport to be modified, and even with a gen2 having to source a minimum 27 year old engine in decent shape or for a full rebuild.

I completely agree that being able to walk into any junkyard in the US to find an engine and purchase high quality components to make the engine swappable in one weekend is more convenient.
 

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Well, that truce didn't last long. 20 minutes? Well, I'm not lying down on this.

Jerking around a newb w/ toss-away words like 'swap' and 'bolt-in' don't help either. The options are there and presented, that's good. But one option isn't nearly as 'convenient 'as the other, all should know this.
How is a literally bolt in minivan engine sold here less convenient than an old and more expensive engine that was never sold here?

You seem to have issue with some aftermarket swap part quality issues, which is true for both 3S and 2GR swaps. But the 2GR is 100% as “bolt-in” by any definition of the word as a gen 4/gen5 3S.

Please answer that if you disagree with it with specifics. Not this “nope, not a bolt on swap, no justification of that.”

FMW, Wilhelm Raceworks, Woodsport, and TCS sell all the parts necessary, to make it 100% bolt in, turn Key, with AC (for R12 cars). If you don’t want to turn wrenches, ATS, TCS and many other vendors will swap your car for a very reasonable amount of money… as it literally is just bolt in.
 

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I think we should just be thankful there are two significant upgrade paths available for NA chassis cars, both of which are pretty much bolt-in. Depending on your definition of that term :)

BTW, does any vendor sell pre-made 1GR compressor to MK2 hardline A/C flex hoses? This was probably the biggest PITA when I did this swap around 3 years ago.
 

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I'm thankful too. But truthfully, I wouldn't want to go to any version of 3S if I had a 5S. Despite the HP gains, I think it's counterproductive at this stage of the game. You've got the chassis, now it's time to spend the time & money.

The OP might want to take a few hours and check the Common Swaps and especially the V6 forum for some good direction. Although this discussion is a start, basing an engine decision like this on a single throwaway thread is not enough.
 

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I think we should just be thankful there are two significant upgrade paths available for NA chassis cars, both of which are pretty much bolt-in. Depending on your definition of that term :)

BTW, does any vendor sell pre-made 1GR compressor to MK2 hardline A/C flex hoses? This was probably the biggest PITA when I did this swap around 3 years ago.
Yeah TCS does now. I've heard they're a little meh on fitment but so were my homemade hoses, so ymmv.
 

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I built a really nice Gen3, with all the goodies for an OE motor. Hardlined everything, new OEM everything, upsized injectors and turbo "bEcAuSe 400wHp"

Then I drove a 400hp car on the track and said yup, too much. And it overheated. And parts are stupid hard to find- not saying you have to do it alllllllllllll the time, but getting parts from the UK, Australia, UAE and Japan is kind of a hassle. Things (like shipping) get prohibitively expensive, fast

So what am I doing about it? Sold the Gen3, bought a 2GR. If I go out of state and have a minor mechanical at a track day- likely to find parts at a parts house or junkyard. Power is likely to be where I want it and how much of it I want. Less to cool, little less weight, more rigid block, lower NVH

I never plan anything to be bolt-in, so my argument lies in experience, extrapolating other's experience and knowing that for me and my budget- a 400whp streetable HPDE car is too much. Too much money in tires, fuel, brakes and cooling. Realistically- the 2GR will be too much too lol. But it will be less of too much

2GR made sense to me, especially after adding up costs. $ per HP, the 2GR is ahead unless you get really lucky (like the guy who bought my Gen3 did)
 
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