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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
9age​

238hp @8000rpm and 175 ft/lb at 6000rpm​

So you?ve herd of the mythical 9age. The first thing you should know is it?s not a factory Toyota engine. A 9age is a hybrid of sorts that takes parts from three different engines and custom made parts. The end result is a 1.8 or 2.0 naturally aspirated (NA) engine liter engine that makes over 200HP and 180ft lbs of torque. (TQ) There is not much information on the 9age because there have only been a few people who have made one. This is my attempt to gather that information in one place. I hope this helps to answer your questions about the 9age.


Now that you know what a 9age is and how much power it can make you?re probably asking why they are not more common. The answer is there not easy or cheep to build. To build a 9age you need parts from 4age (16v/20v), 7afe block, 1zz/2zz crank, 2zz connecting rods (con-rods) and custom pistons. For this guide I'm going to assume you all ready have a stock 4age 16v and we will start building from there.


Engine Build Chapters:

1: The Head
2: The Block
3: The Crank
4: Connecting Rods
5: Pistons
6: Electronics
7: 9agte/9agze
8: Install
9: Extra Info

1: Head

If you use a 16v head you will have a stock looking engine but a few things should be done to prep the head.

When going from 1.6L (1588cc) to 1.8/2.0 L (1839.6cc/1980.3cc)of displacement the engine head will be trying to fill more space in each of the cylinders. On the 16v head you might want to go with 1mm bigger valves and/or bigger cams. Another way to flow more air into the bigger cylinders would be to use a 4age 20v head. The increased flow from the head will help the engine fill the bigger displacement. If you live in California you might want to stick to the 16v head as it will look stock when finished. If you don?t have CARB to deal with I would go with the 20v head over the 16v. The downside of using a 20v head is you also have to use 20v electronics or some kind of standalone fuel system. A Blacktop head is said to flow better than the ST but either should be fine. Also the valve stem seals should be replaced and the head should be resurfaced since you have the head off already. Also you can take this time to get the head cleaned.


2: Block

A 9age is a lot like the more common 7age in that it uses a 4age head and a 7afe engine block. The main difference between the two hybrid engines is that the 9age makes use of different internals that push displacement to the 2.0L mark. The block needs to be machined in order to fit these bigger parts. The 7afe?s most common application was in the Toyota Corolla (1993?1997, AE102) well as in the ST version of Celica (1994?1999, AT200) as well as the Toyota Corolla's clone, the Geo Prizm.

There is only one thing that needs to be done to the block to make a 9age. For the 1zz application the walls of the block need to be ground so that the crank counterweights can spin without hitting the sides or the crank mounting points. You have to have the center of the crank machined to clear the 7afe block (journal to counter weights area). The 2zz only needs the crank machined as the crank?s throw is 85mm. The stock stroke for a 7afe is 85.5 so the 2zz will not hit the sides of the block.

The block should be resurfaced along with the head for a proper seating of the head gasket especially if you?re going to use a metal head gasket. Also take into consideration to replacing all the freeze plugs.

If you want the 2.0L you will also have to bore the block out to 83mm and use 83mm pistons.

83mm bore + 91.5 stroke = 1980 cc or 2.0 liters.


Here are specifications of the different blocks and engine information:

7AFE
81mm Bore X 85.5mm Stroke
Rods length 132.5mm
Block height 206mm
Compression Ratio 9.5 with stock head
Displacement 1762cc
Crankshaft Main-journal diameter 48mm
Crankshaft Pin-journal diameter 48.0


2ZZ
82mm Bore X 85mm Stroke
Rods length 137.9 mm
Block height 211.75mm
Bore Wall 5.5mm
Compression Ratio 11.5 with stock head
Displacement (cc) 1795
Crankshaft Main-journal diameter 48mm
Crankshaft Pin-journal diameter 45mm

More 2zz info here: http://www.celicasg.com/2zzGE-Engine.pdf


1ZZ
Rods length 146.65mm
Block height 211.7mm
78.994mm Bore X 91.440 Stroke
Bore Spacing 87.5
Bore Wall 8.5mm
Compression Ratio 10.0:1 with stock head
Displacement (cc) 1794
Crankshaft Main-journal diameter 48mm
Crankshaft Pin-journal diameter 44mm

More 1zz info here: http://www.spyderchat.com/1zzfe.pdf


3: Crank

The 2.0L 1980cc 9age is built by using the 1zz crank shaft. The 1zz crank has a throw of 91.5mm instead of the stock 7afe throw of 85.5mm. The increased throw adds displacement and that makes a bigger engine.

In order to use the 1zz crank you have to have bore the 7afe block so that the bigger counter weights don?t hit the sides and crank mounting points. This was covered in chapter 2. Also to get the either crank to fit you have to have the center of the crank machined to clear the 7afe block (journal to counter weights area).

4: Connecting Rods

From what little information I could find about this engine it sounds like 2zz rods are the ones to use. 2zz rods will fit on a 1zz crank as both rods have a 51mm big end. The small ends are both 20mm as well. This might help with piston chooses as now you have to options when it comes to rods. Use the 7afe rods if the rod pistons are too tall with the 2zz rods. Another option is to use the 7afe rods as they are shorter than both the 1zz/2zz rods. All three rods should fit on the 1zz crank shaft. I would use forged con-rods if you can afford it.

146.65mm = 1zz rod
137.9 mm = 2zz rod
132.5 mm = 7afe rod


5: Pistons

For the 9age to be built you have to have custom pistons made. You have to keep a piston height of 27mm-28.5 mm to keep the engine non-interference if you plan on going with 2zzge rods. If you plan on using a 20v Head you will have to have 5 valve reliefs (flycuts) on the top of the pistons. If you use the 2zz con-rods what ever piston you use has to have a bore of 83mm be no taller than 28.5mm (center of pin-top of piston) and have a pin size of 20mm.

Also note that you can?t use the earlier bigport 4AGE pistons and wrist pin due to it using an 18mm wrist pin.

I have read that Ca18det pistons would work if shaved down 1.5mm and had new valve reliefs cut into it. Other piston might work if they meet the requirements listed above.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
part 2

Chapter 6: Electronics

With the bigger displacement of the 9age a upgrade in injector size and some kind of aftermarket fuel management will be required. Injector size and engine management are dependent on your set up. (NA/Turbo/SC) The 2.0L engine is 20% larger than a stock 4age so get injectors that will at least accommodate that increase. A standalone unit like Megasquirt should allow you to tune this engine set up to your other mods. A piggyback will allow you to tune the engine but won?t have as many options as a full standalone but they are cheaper.

Chapter 7: 9agte/9agze

Supercharging or turbo(ing) a 9age would is possible but would require a little more work. A 20v 9agte/gze is possible but difficult as there is not as much support for the 20v for F/I. If you?re thinking about going F/I a 16v 9agte/gze would be easier because all you would have to do is put the turbo/SC head on the 7afe block with the 9age bottome end already installed.

8.9 CP 4agze pistons will fit in the stock bore of the 7afe. The pin diameter is also the same 20mm. This set up would need custom rods.

Added by Filonin:
Actually, the 4agze has the same head as the 4age (bigport or smallport depending on year), so you don't have to get a 4agze head. Also, either the 8.9:1 or the 8.0:1 gze pistons will work in the 7afe block


Chapter 8: Install

Installing a 9age would be as easy as any 4age. All the mounts are in the same location on the 7afe block. C series transmissions bolt to the 7afe block. The flywheel of the 7afe uses 6 bolts instead of the 8 found on the 4age. The 2zz flywheel will work. A 7AFE 212mm or 4afe 200mm 6 bolt flywheel will also work.
For the clutch use anything as long as it fits both the c series transmissions and the 212 02 200mm flywheel your using..

Added by Filonin:
Any FWD/midengine series transmission that fits on the 4a will also fit on the 7a; e-series,c-series, or automatic." When using the e-series transmission, you have two choices: use the 7afe FW w/ a custom clutch, which is expensive, or use the '88 corolla alltrac FW w/ the stock 4agze clutch. The '88 alltrac corolla FW has 6 bolt holes and is 224mm.

Timing belt tensioner ? The 7AFE belt tensioner is bigger and it gives more tension to the belt which is needed when using the Porsche 944 belt. The 4AGE tensioner is smaller and doesn?t give tension to the belt so the 7AFE tensioner must be used.

Transmission - There are two different types of dust shields that you can use depending on which transmission you are using. The transmission plate for the C50 places the starter in the front of the engine under the header. The C52, C56, C160 has two openings so that you can place it under the exhaust manifold or under the intake manifold. Best is to use the corresponding dust plate for the transmission that you are going to use to avoid any problems.

Added by Filonin:
Any FWD/midengine series transmission that fits on the 4a will also fit on the 7a; e-series,c-series, or automatic." When using the e-series transmission, you have two choices: use the 7afe FW w/ a custom clutch, which is expensive, or use the '88 corolla alltrac FW w/ the stock 4agze clutch. The '88 alltrac corolla FW has 6 bolt holes and is 224mm.

The Exhaust: added by Filonin
The 4a exhaust manifold is the problem here as it curves inward toward the block too much. To clear, you have to use either a custom header, or the 20v header, which curves less. Then you have to either make a DP to match the 20v flange, or buy one from te51levin. Link to his DP thread HERE


Final notes

I have never built this engine but I have gathered what little information about it into one place. Please do not use this as a how-to? This information should be double cheeked prior to spending any money or machining any parts. I am not responsible for any loss of money or property if you decide to build this engine.

Please email me with any questions or if you would like to add any information. I will edit this post if you have more information to add.

I have tried to link to every page I have gathered this information from. If you feel you don?t want your link used in this post please email me at and I will remove it.

My Email: [email protected]

I can not take credit for any of this information. All I have done is just combined everything I have read from the fowling links. I hope this helps.

Here is a 1990cc stroked 7age motor:
? http://www.speedracersportscars.com.au/stroker.htm

2.0L 20v 9age built by TED components. $$$$
? http://www.tedcomponents.com/7ag.htm

? http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=345213&highlight=9age

? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_A_engine#9A

? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_A_engine#7A

? http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=146805&highlight=9age

? http://www.spyderchat.com/1zzfe.pdf

? http://www.celicasg.com/2zzGE-Engine.pdf

? http://www.toyoland.com/engines/4A-F.html

? http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=146805&page=2&pp=30&highlight=9age

? http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35956

? http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=48566

? http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-255097.html

? http://forum.9000rpm.net/viewtopic.php?pid=43191

Parts can be found here:​

? http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/index.php

2zz Con-Rods forged​

? http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=42_47_113&products_id=376

? http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=42_47_113&products_id=832
7afe Con-rods forged

? http://www.belfabracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=263_225_355&products_id=1314&osCsid=b8e0e1ed5bee3aa45604557bbab5f3db

1zz/2zz crank shafts​

? http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=42_47_153&products_id=585

? http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=42_47_153&products_id=833

Pistons​
? http://www.cppistons.com/

? http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/SportCompact/CompleteCatalog.pdf
Page 19 for Toyota​

? http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/
Not that I need to post it, but you never know.

? http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=80

? http://www.twosrus.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=305

That should be most of what you need.

And yes I do have way to much time on my hands :p
 

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You should try to get a dyno sheet from the guy that makes that engine.

Also find out if its making those numbers on pump gas or race gas.
 

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Hmmm. What hapens if you use the 7afe rods on the 1zz crank? Like the Belfab ones? They are shorter, would they accomodate a more easily attained piston as it wouldn't poke over the block? What would this do to the compression and displacement? I'm emailing you w/ some more info to add to it BTW. Sticky for sure, but it probably should be in common engine swaps near the 7age sticky.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
9. Extra Info

Part 1 Compression Ratio

Compression would be different for each application. 20v, 16v, turbo, SC so all I can say is that head gaskets affect your CP ratio. I have seen 2mm all the way down to .5mm in HG thickness. Pick witch one you need based on your set up.


Part 2 7afe Rods

Some people have asked about 7afe rods and the 1zz crank... Here is my answer. It?s long, but detailed.

Engine Block deck height minus 1/2 stroke + rod should give the size of the piston you would need. Center of pin to top of piston. Right?

B - (1/2C + R) = P

Were:
C = Crank stroke R = Rod length B = Block Deck Height P = Piston Height (pin center - top

So for this application

206 - (1/2*91.5) + 132.5) = P

----206 - (45.75 + 132.5) = P

----------206 - 178.25 = 27.25


If your going to use the 7afe rods the piston would have to be 27.25mm tall.

Any one know the height of 20v, GZE, and AGE pistons? The piston would also have to be 81-82mm wide and have a Pin size of 20mm.

Any ideas?

Check my work... I might have messed that up.

Bore / Stroke = Bore stroke ratio (easy right)

Bore and stroke would be the same 91.5 and 82 so it the engine would still is 1932.9cc. The engine would not like to rev very high due to the bigger stroke. The stroke ratio would be .89 (82/91.5) so the red line would be higher than the 1zz (6750) but less then the rest of the engines shown

9age would probably rev to 6800-6900 and still be happy.

Some stroke ratios for comparison (rounded to nearest hundredth)


Engine stroke Math Redline Car it came in
ratio

4age 1.05 81/77 16v 6600 AW11
20v 8000 AE101

2zz 0.96 82/85 7750 Celica/ Elise/Exige

7afe 0.95 81/85.5 6800 E100/T200 base

9age 0.90 82/91.5 :dontknow: nothing :p

1zz 0.77 71/91.5 6750 MRS/Elise

Good forged 7afe rods and be found HERE
 

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oh, I forgot to tell you. Richard at TED Components was building the "9ag 20v" for some customers in the Caribbean for use in racing. We discussed it on the phone, did not get into details, but I know it was a 2 liter A-series with 20v.
It was right after SW2005, I was at our old house preparing to move to the new digs.
He may be the guy to contact about this.
 

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http://www.tedcomponents.com/7ag.htm

7AG....The re-invention of the engine that could and did, now with the 7A block.

Making the motor more FLEXIBLE, STRONGER, QUICKER.

83mm Stroke with1796cc capacity and use a longer rod
81mm Stroke with 1796cc capacity and high RPM potential; use an even longer rod
Increase swept volume up to 2029cc Capacity and use a longer than stock connecting rod.
Custom camshafts and valve kits to promote better cylinder fill at the highest capacity displacement
The disadvantages of the 7a conversion is the con-rod bearing load and the inadequate cylinder fill at the higher capacities/RPM's.

We have addressed both these concerns on our applications, but recommend dry sump on application over 8500 rpm of continuous use; e.g.: Road Racing/Rallying



New Cranks - $2000.00
Big valve kits - $400.00
Steel Rod kits - $1445.00
NEW Chill-Cast OEM camshafts -$900.00 (special profile)

Price/Qty Sensitive items


Prices in Canadian Dollars

Team T.E.D.
Tel: 905.728.6267
Fax: 905.728.4423
Toll Free Fax: 1.866.728.6267
Email: [email protected]

Shop:
628 Howard Street
Oshawa ON
L1H 4Z1

Office:
601 Galahad Drive, Unit 8
Oshawa ON L1K1L9
 

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I recently sold a 9age on craigslist,, please remember the 2zzge rods are 1mm larger at the big ends 45mm if i remember vs 44mm 1zzfe to overcome this
the 1zz crankshaft NEEDS to be enlarged (chromed/ welded then resurfaced) or oversized bearings must be used
I see this being the Toyota B20 engine
I can supply info just ask
also i know this isnt for sale but i do have a bare 7afe block and 1zzfe crankshaft that hasnt been altered to fit the 7afe engine block
when I built my first 9a I had material shaved off my crank and not the block the 7afe block is already thin...
When i decided to spend bling bling on the 2nd 9a with 2zzge crankshaft with custom rods/pistons it was easier to have everything custom made right the first time unlike the first 9ag
i disasembled that engine and sold off parts to finance for the 2nd 9a only really custom thing was rods I used off the shelf honda domed 82mm pistons making certain the didnt hit the valves as it was for a 16v head
The crank nose is shorter on the zz cranks but it does turn both v's on the A series oil pumps a slight amout of play but nothing a small weld and sanding cant help
I assume you can add /edit / delete my post to fill in the gaps in the stcky hopefully any other stroked A series owners will throw in thier 2 cents
Info about the engine buyer--- he plans to use that engine in an 80's rwd corolla he wanted something that looked like a 20v swap but had a kick was his reason but i dont know what he did with the engine
DAvid
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
For the love of god thank you for posting. Your CL add rased so many questions about the 9age.

Could you send me as much info on the 9age as you have so I can compleat my sticky. There is hardly any information about this engine online and what little there is I have read and put in this thread. I have seen your post on other sites as well but most if not all of the pics were broken links so if you could send pics of what you did to the parts as well please do so.

BTW your email is invalid and your pm box is full so it was imposible to contact you before I posted this.

please send info to: [email protected]
 

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Very interesting indeed.

had never even heard of a 9AGE option before.

And I thought I was making enough power by going from 4AGTE 1587cc Turbo to the 7AGTE 1784 cc I have now.

I gained another 150hp with the 200cc increase,
Imagine the possibilities of another 200cc.....

Hmmm................
 

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email is [email protected] yeah i canceled [email protected]
Sorry my pm is full i hardly ever come here
I was talking to the rod shop/builder that made my custom rods he was considering making a set to use with 2zzge pistons but i think its better for a matching rod/piston combo 20v valve cutouts pistons with custom rods would be nice
honestly i think a 2zzge crank with custom rods and 20v pistons with the matching squish chamber head would be quick easy and the cheepest route if you want to stroke the A series
Its not hard just get all the parts you need
I do have a spare 7afe block and 1zzfe crankshaft if anyone wants to start mixing with black magic engines
David
I will post pics of zz crank and the A series block and misc pictures this week ,,, promise david
 

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I wonder if the 16V 4AGZE pistons would be a cheap option for the combo?

I know you'll say the cut out are wrong, but they work fine in the 7AGTE with a 20V head, just bend a valve if you break a cambelt.
I know as that's what I'm running and the pistons are more than capable of 500HP+
 
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