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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, i believe this is in the right place. I started building my 5sfte, and would like some comments on what supporting mods would be.
Bottom End
5sfe block decked, bored, and honed to 87.5mm (.5mm overbore)
Cp custom pistons to fit bore
Eagle 3sgte rods,
Crank machined to 3s rod sizes,
Should i use
5s waterpump or will the 3s fit or be better
same for oil pump? ( read somewhere this could be done?? )

5sfe oil pan setup for oil lines.

Head?

What Degree should i have my cams reground? ( pretty streatble, not concered about gas consumtion, only driven on weekends)
Should i do 3sgte ferra valves? which i believe are 1 mm oversized intake and exhaust?

Metal camry head gasket, ( corrrect?? )

Now on to turbos, i was thinking about going with ATS CT27 just so it was more close to stock, but dont know if this is good options, dont know much about turbos?? What do you guys think??

Intercooler? stock should be fine for 12 psi right? what would be good upgrade??

Exhaust manifold, should i buy a stock 3s or should i buy aftermarket?

Just for more info, looking for considerable power, not to much more than stock 5sfte should i just use stock 5s head, just did the bottom end so it was strong, plus needed something to build at school...

i know i need msd btu, and ignition timing messed with, but how big of injectors should i used?? Supra injectors will be fine or not?

Then just need turbo map sensor, and fuel pump correct??
Please post anything recommendations, or comments, or concerns, or anything i am forgetting i have done hours and hours of research and reading before posting this so please dont flame me bout using search function, or 3sgte swap, thx
 

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I would use an OEM 5s water pump but a 98+ 5sfe oil pump because it flows more.

Cams depends on where you want your power in the rev range. Any of the stock Webcam grinds are pretty mild and would be fine on a stock 5sfe to move you torque curve to the right without putting it over the redline.

For a 93 5sfe you will want to buy 2jzgte valves. The stock size is 1mm oversized in a 5sfe. I would have the head ported too to get the best gains out of them.

I heard the Camery head gaskets works on some 5sfes but make sure the water and oil passages line up. You can buy one for the mr2 at www.poweredbytoyota.com for $50.

A CT-27 is a little big for the fuel system on a 5sfte unless you go with stand alone ECU and larger injectors. Most people who have tried larger turbos have reported running lean in the higher rpms.

The stock intercooler is fine for the power levels you can reach without going stand alone EMS. (180-200rwhp)

The stock manifold is fine until you get to crazy power levels and it makes bolting up a stock turbo easier if that's what you plan on using.

The MSD-BTM is all you need to keep the timing in check when using the stock 5sfe computer. You can leave your timing at 10 degrees.

I would stick with the light green top 315cc injectors off a MkIII NA Supra. SOme have found 360cc injectors would work as well but they ran rich at WOT. Anything bigger then that and I would get a stand alone EMS.

The fuel pump is good to 235rwhp at stock pressure so for most setups it is acceptable.

If you haven't already read these:
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=4296
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=138844
http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Turbo5sfe.html
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
So, Few quick questions? What color, and where to get the 360's what psi should i be excepted to max out at, thx, i have read all those posts, thx for the info, Also what kind of tuning would you or anyone recommend, alot of honda friends of mine are having their ecu chipped by dyno tuning places would this make more power or do you think it will run find without tuning?? dont know much about that, i just not its important to have everything mixed right..
 

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The 360cc injectors were brown I believe but I have never seen them only heard about them. With the 315cc injectors you can only go up to about 9-10psi before you run out of fuel with a CT-26 and stock 5sfe but you don't need any more tuning except the BTM to keep it safe. The 360cc injectors will get you a little higher but only because they will be running richer through the whole rpm range so they won't hit a lean condition as quickly after they hit 100% duty cycle. As far as I know there is no chip solution for the 5sfe so a full stand alone is required to really tune it right. There are some black boxes out there like the emanage, SMT6, SMT7 and probably others that might let you run some bigger injectors and still compensate for timing issues but they have their limits. Also people have tried the SAFC but you should only use it if you are doing minor adjustments and then it is safest to only add fuel, not remove it, by using it in combination with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Last thing if you are running a custom setup you NEED to use a wideband and on a dyno if possible. The 5sfe is MAP based and won't compensate for changes in volumetric efficientcy like a 3sgte.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
From what i have heard about tuning, its not really a chip so to speak it is a certain computer program ran in conjuction with a wideband o2 to remapp the stock fuel supply... then as long as the right amount of spark is there everything works great?? I know of a few supras around here who have been tuned this way.. www.racelinetuning.com is the major tuning place around here..
 

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mr turrari, i really gotta disagree about the bigger injectors/ems thing
im currently running 460cc injectors, with the 2bar map, and was able to get this A/F ratio, with MINIMAL SAFCII tuning. im talking -6 as a max setting.
and yes, this is with the CT-27..about 11-12 lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
manny said:
mr turrari, i really gotta disagree about the bigger injectors/ems thing
im currently running 460cc injectors, with the 2bar map, and was able to get this A/F ratio, with MINIMAL SAFCII tuning. im talking -6 as a max setting.
and yes, this is with the CT-27..about 11-12 lbs.
Did u do dyno SAFCII tuning?? Where did u get 460cc injectors, do you have to splice the harness??
 

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manny said:
mr turrari, i really gotta disagree about the bigger injectors/ems thing im currently running 460cc injectors, with the 2bar map, and was able to get this A/F ratio, with MINIMAL SAFCII tuning. im talking -6 as a max setting.
and yes, this is with the CT-27..about 11-12 lbs.
It is common knowledge that if you pull fuel using a SAFC the ECU will advance timing and since you are already advancing the timing by using the 2bar MAP and larger injectors the effects of this are additive. Do you know where your timing is? I'm not saying it can't work but my advice to anyone is that if you are going to have to fool the computer that much (it's like putting two black boxes in a row) you will be safer running a stand alone where timing can actually be set. This topic has been discussed many times in the 3sgte forums with people using 540cc injectors and a SAFC to get 300rwhp. For a couple of people this has worked but for others it has been disasterous. The only way they found around this was to lower fuel pressure and only add fuel with the SAFC. So I am not saying that is isn't possible. It's just not something I would recommend because there is a varible that you can't see and can't totally control.

By the way those are some great numbers for a 5sfte. :smile: That drop at 4500 though is concerning. What is you spark plug gap? Are all your ignition components new? There is definitely something happening above 4500 RPM like a misfire or knock response.
 

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sorry to interupt...

Mrturrari, when i get my 5sfte together....will i NEED to dyno tune it??

im planning on using the supra injectors and 2bar MAP sensor with MSD BTM.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
so what 1/4 mile times are these hp #s about to be, i mean i know they say it is faster than a stock turbo and arent those like mid to high 13's so what are we looking at low 13? maybe or what??
 

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lilhoodlum86 said:
sorry to interupt...

Mrturrari, when i get my 5sfte together....will i NEED to dyno tune it??

im planning on using the supra injectors and 2bar MAP sensor with MSD BTM.
As long as you have a setup close to what is in the sticky (stock 5sfe, ct-26, 315cc injectors, 3sgte MAP sensor and MSD-BTM) you won't need any additional tuning. It's when you start deviating from the tried and true setup that you need to verify that it is safe.
 

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Mestup said:
so what 1/4 mile times are these hp #s about to be, i mean i know they say it is faster than a stock turbo and arent those like mid to high 13's so what are we looking at low 13? maybe or what??
There are too many factors to say for sure but I know someone with the sticky setup hit 14 even. I think high 13s would be possible under the right conditions.
 

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the wifey ran a 14.07(remember, this is a FWD celica..lol) im sure id be faster in a mr2
the dip @ 4500 was caused by the BTM.
turn the BTM to 0, no more dip. weird, huh?
as far as advancing timing, i am pulling less than 6%, which in turn is less than 2 degrees of timing.
and if you size your injectors accordinly to match the MAP sensor, you get no timing advance from that. :thumbup
the homework HAS been done, MR.
i been running this setup for 9 months, over 10k, dozens of dyno pulls, 9 track runs, several couple hundered mile trips, ect, with NO issues. ;)
one thing that makes comes to mind is the fact that i have a stock MHG
i think a lot of the diffrences we have are affected by the generation of engine.
with the 94+ celica, we have a newer engine to start with, and in my case, i have a '98 5s in my car.
 
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