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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
Currently in the middle of sourcing parts for my 5SGTE conversion. I have now got a complete 5S-FE engine and 3SGTE Gen 3 head.

Came across a few thread about choosing the correct connecting rods. I will get the aftermarket H-Beam ones but not sure if this one needs to use 3SGTE piston or have to get a special custom made pistons to suit. This aftermarket ones measures as below:

Center to Center = 5.435"
Bearing End Bore = 2.166"
Pin End Bore = 0.866"

It seems like it is longer than a standard 3SGTE rods which is 5.412" and having a bearing end bore of 2.166" meaning that I don't have to turn down the crank journal like how people do it when they use 3SGTE connecting rods?

Can anyone clarify?

Thanks
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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Most use the normal Eagle rods and then stroker pistons in a 5sgte setup. You can get the pistons from a few places, ATS sells a pretty nice one from Wiseco for a good price.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have looked into Eagle website but I can't find connecting rods for 5SFE.

Also, what is the stock 3SGTE rod length? was it 5.428" or 5.412"?

Can any one clarify this?

Thanks
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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They don't make a rod for the 5s, you want the 3sgte rods. The pistons are whats different from the 2.0 to 2.2l stroker. Even the 2.3l stroker runs 3sgte rods.

The rod lengths are the same for the 5s and the 3s far as I know, the big end on the 5s rod is bigger so you have to have the crank ground down to fit the 3s rods. Unless you want to spend the big bucks for the pauter 5s rods
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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chang_hb said:
So after ground down the crank, can I just use normal 3SGTE pistons and 3SGTE rods?
No, you grind down the crank and then you can use the 3sgte rods but you need 5sgte stroker pistons.

There are quite a few threads on this subject out there with lots of info. I think Darcon had a good rundown.

Where are you located? Might be better off just ordering a stroker shortblock from ATS. At the least I would order the pistons from them, they can point you in the right direction for the rest of your build as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm from Australia.
If I still need a 5sgte stroker pistons, that means I am paying double to get it to the right direction (Pay for rod journal reground + 5sgte stroker piston).

That is why I was wondering if I there is anyone that make H-Beam in 5SFE spec ( stock 5SFE length and stock 5SFE rod journal size), and still allow me to use 3SGTE piston as the pin end on both engines are the same. This means I only need to pay once for the 5SFE H-Beam rods. Might save a bit for some other stuff, but in long run, I don't have to worry about spun a bearing or pauter stops making 5SGTE stroker pistons anymore...
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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chang_hb said:
I'm from Australia.
If I still need a 5sgte stroker pistons, that means I am paying double to get it to the right direction (Pay for rod journal reground + 5sgte stroker piston).

That is why I was wondering if I there is anyone that make H-Beam in 5SFE spec ( stock 5SFE length and stock 5SFE rod journal size), and still allow me to use 3SGTE piston as the pin end on both engines are the same. This means I only need to pay once for the 5SFE H-Beam rods. Might save a bit for some other stuff, but in long run, I don't have to worry about spun a bearing or pauter stops making 5SGTE stroker pistons anymore...
You can pay the big bucks for the pauter 5sfe rods so you don't have to turn down the crank but you still need stroker pistons no matter what you do. The 3sgte and 5sfe rods are the same length, the difference is the big end bore size.

The only way you will get away without stroker pistons is if you get custom rods made which will outweigh the cost of the pistons. You will also have an even worse rod ratio if you did have custom rods made.

The reason most go with the eagle rods and turning down the crank is that ends up being the cheapest overall and is more then enough for anything 99% of people want. That setup has made 800whp+ with HD pistons.
 

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Why don't u use supra conrods and custom piston?

No need to reground the crank, only custom piston, and from je,mit is only 10% more for one change in design,
 

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TH Performance said:
Why don't u use supra conrods and custom piston?

No need to reground the crank, only custom piston, and from je,mit is only 10% more for one change in design,
Why on earth would you want to do that? The stock 3sgte rods are PLENTY strong enough if you are gonna do that. They have made over 700whp on stock 3s rods. You can then use off the shelf Stroker pistons.

The eagles are so cheap it just makes sense, they are WAY lighter.
 

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Because u don't mess the crank, and have 52mm instead of 48mm big end, which is stronger solution, and u can buy of the shelf rods.

Then there is an option on a good quality custom piston.

Much better solution then to ____ up the crank.

And fairytales of 700whp on stock rods leave for urban legends, in whole world there are FEW 600+ REAL HP 3sgte's, and all use a ____load of expensive parts!
 

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TH Performance said:
Because u don't mess the crank, and have 52mm instead of 48mm big end, which is stronger solution, and u can buy of the shelf rods.

Then there is an option on a good quality custom piston.

Much better solution then to ____ up the crank.

And fairytales of 700whp on stock rods leave for urban legends, in whole world there are FEW 600+ REAL HP 3sgte's, and all use a ____load of expensive parts!
go to the racing records and look up sergey (MR2liter) he made 701whp on shot peened stock rods.

Supra rods are out of the question no need to really.Anybody heard of rod ratio? Dont want to shave the crank then do like I did....Look into wallet and pull out 800 bucks,call pauter and have them make you a set.

Angel
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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TH Performance said:
Because u don't mess the crank, and have 52mm instead of 48mm big end, which is stronger solution, and u can buy of the shelf rods.

Then there is an option on a good quality custom piston.

Much better solution then to ____ up the crank.

And fairytales of 700whp on stock rods leave for urban legends, in whole world there are FEW 600+ REAL HP 3sgte's, and all use a ____load of expensive parts!
There are ZERO problems with turning down the crank if done correctly. All of the ATS motors making 700whp++ are using turned down crank with eagle rods. And yes, there have been documented and proven 700whp with stock rods, they were shot peened but still stock rods.

You obviously have not been in the MR2 world long, in the last ~year alone there have been a ~half dozen 700whp+ MR2 built. the 2nd place record motor right now is Aarons car with a 2.3l stroker running a turned down 5s crank to stroke it even further and eagle rods with off the shelf ATS HD pistons. About as budget as you can get but yet still made a tone of power and daily driven for a year+.

The off the shelf stroker pistons are good enough for 650whp+, the HD pistons are good for 1000whp.

Using supra rods is not a good option at all, you make a bad rod ratio even worse and gain nothing in return, costs more too.

Also lastly there is the option of off the shelf rods, pauter makes them but they are pretty pricy and gain you nothing but extra weight and an empty wallet unless going for stupid high power levels.
 

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I see u r talking about 700whp on dynojet. Then everything is clear.

I would LOVE to see one of these engines doing 3 laps on ANY race track, full throttle.

Really would.

I also have the 2,3l that i built myself and i know what i am talking about.

Also, you should go to your google friend, and see that with supra rods the rod/stroke ratio is BETTER, since supra rods are LONGER. At least in my book.

So, when you show me 600+hp DYNO DYNAMICS, MAINLINE OR DYNAPACK sheet, WHP, then andn nly then you can we can start debating about stock rods. ;)

This is my car, don't mind the language, u will see what u need to see.

http://www.thperformance.hr/projekti/toyota-celica-gt-four

And that is my 6th celica, I am not into mr2 :(

But respect all toyotas!
 

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Not gonna get into another dyno debate, not the point of the thread. The point of the thread is also not stock rods, 3s vs 2j stock rods are the same strength if not in favor of the 3s. So your point is moot and pointless. I would not recommend anyone using stock rods from any motor, for the price of eagle rods the weight savings is worth it alone.

You don't build a 700whp motor to race on a track in an MR2, that is death waiting to happen. No one uses stock rods at that power level not because they can't but before for the price of eagle rods it makes no sense. I have yet to see more then the fluke broken stock rod, even then I have seen only a handful.

The point of this thread is building a 5sgte, in which case eagle rods are the cheapest method, pauter rods might be considered the "best" method. Supra rods don't apply to ANY method.

Now it was my bad on the supra rod length, I must have got them mixed up with one of the other toyota motors that people tried to use the rods out of and found they had to deck the block by a fair amount for them to even work. Thought it was the 2jz but maybe not.
 

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You really have no idea do you.

Pats all trac celica makes over 900whp and does over 200 in the mile. Is that enough abuse for you?

600 in a dyno dymanic or dynapack? Yep using dynos that read lower then a dynojet. Everything you're saying has been discussed already.

Bigger rod does not always mean a better rod ratio. But of course you probably know that. Rod ratio,piston speed all play a role in a motor. Why would you exchange a steel rod for another steel rod? Just doesn't make sense really.

Plenty of autox guys making big power and run for a while. It all depends on what you want to do with the car.

Angel
 
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