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Al Powers made over 500rwhp on a stock short-block. Jeff Fazio made over 400hp on a stock short-block and it had over 200,000 miles on it! It is all about the tuning. The pistons in our engines are by far the weak point, but they are still strong! It's all about the tuning, just don't detonate!

Use the search feature for more info, it's discussed all the time.

Brian
 

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if your planning to make 300 hp or less the stock block is fine. anything more i would recommend forged pistons! the people making 400+ hp on a stock block are always running on 100+ octane fuel. tuning is also a major factor, but stock block on pump gas, your asking to blow your motor!
 

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Our stock rods are good for around 700rwhp (proven). I don't know why people always throw in aftermarket rods. Maybe for the weight savings (if any). Overall, cast pistons can be almost as strong and more streetable than forged slugs. A good example is the 06' Corvette z06. That thing has a bulletproof crank, titanium connecting rods, and CAST PISTONS! Many people say "why would they do that, all those bulletproof parts and they put cast pistons in it?" In reality, proper tuning and a good build cast piston (360 skirt) is almost as good as the forged. The MKIV Supra has a similar setup like ours. 3.0L and people use STOCK short-blocks and break 1100rwhp! The rods are identical. If they get 1100rwhp on stock rods with a 3.0L (6 rods) thats 183.33hp per rod which means a 2.0L (4 rods) mr2 should make 733.33rwhp with those rods. And that measured at RWHP. The supra has about a 18-20 percent drive-line loss, the mr2's is about 12-13 percent. Which means the mr2 may even be good for 800+hp! Most blown/damaged engines are due to improper tuning or high mileage. I am considering building a 3sgte short-block with all stock parts, just ZGS piston rings with larger end gaps, .0003" larger pistons to cylinder wall clearance, and ceramic coating.
This should make for an engine (with proper tuning) capable of at least 600rwhp. If the damn thing doesn't crack! Maybe some ductile iron STD size sleeves (worst case scenario)! Thats down the road though. After my 93' is finished, i'm building a widebody mr2 race car. I'll be happy with 500rwhp considering the car will weigh less than 2600 with driver. Ok, I'm done yapping.

Brian
 

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black93hardtop said:
. The supra has about a 18-20 percent drive-line loss, the mr2's is about 12-13 percent.
Garbage. Total conjecture, with no facts backing it up. The only guess we can possibly have about drivetrain loss (until someome throws a 3SGTE on an engine dyno, and on a chassis dyno without changing anything), is that drivetrain loss on a STOCK MR2-Turbo is 17.5%.

The average 200 crank hp stock MR2 Turbo makes 165whp.
 

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boostd4 said:
Garbage. Total conjecture, with no facts backing it up. The only guess we can possibly have about drivetrain loss (until someome throws a 3SGTE on an engine dyno, and on a chassis dyno without changing anything), is that drivetrain loss on a STOCK MR2-Turbo is 17.5%.

The average 200 crank hp stock MR2 Turbo makes 165whp.

It's an estimate. Even 17.5 is better than a Supra. All I am saying is the rods are strong and the stock short-block is plenty stout as it is with proper tuning. Thanks for belittling me, You could have simply added that the drivetrain loss is 17.5 and not 12-13 percent.

Brian
 

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Sorry. Just tired of people giving advice to people based on "guesses."

I work at a dealership and all I hear all day long is, "well... I heard on the forums that if I do this, I should make X horsepower, etc etc" and 99% of it is garbage.

It's nothing personal, but you have to realized that half the teenagers on these forums read the BS that people post as fact, and then swear by it in every conversation they have about their car.

If I can reduce this in anyway, I will. ;) Makes my work life less annoying. :)
 

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black93hardtop said:
Al Powers made over 500rwhp on a stock short-block. Jeff Fazio made over 400hp on a stock short-block and it had over 200,000 miles on it! It is all about the tuning. The pistons in our engines are by far the weak point, but they are still strong! It's all about the tuning, just don't detonate!

Use the search feature for more info, it's discussed all the time.

Brian
but how long is the motor lasting? did they every mention about spunning a rod?
the maint point is how long the motor lasting. I do believe the shortblock can make over 400, but how long does it last?
 

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boostd4 said:
Sorry. Just tired of people giving advice to people based on "guesses."

I work at a dealership and all I hear all day long is, "well... I heard on the forums that if I do this, I should make X horsepower, etc etc" and 99% of it is garbage.

It's nothing personal, but you have to realized that half the teenagers on these forums read the BS that people post as fact, and then swear by it in every conversation they have about their car.

If I can reduce this in anyway, I will. ;) Makes my work life less annoying. :)

Apology accepted my friend :smile:

Yes, the rod thing and drive-train power loss I said is theoretical, but a intelligent individual would know this and not go off saying "My mr2 engine is good for 800hp!!!" I do agree, there is nothing more irritating than somebody trying to tell me about their car and it's all BS they read on the net. I too worked at a dealership and had to put up with BS like that. Thank god I am self employed now and don't have to deal with it anymore. I just talked to a guy that owns a Ford Probe V6 and he tells me that the head is forged and the pistons are billet. He plans on running 64psi into the stock long-block. I remember 64 because I immediately thought of the Nintendo 64! HAHA Anyways, I am simply agreeing with you and hope the people reading that post I wrote understands the rod strength to 800+whp and the drive-train loss percentages I wrote was hypothetical. I was not guessing boostd4, I was hypothesizing (educated guess) :thumbup :thumbup

Brian
 

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RWDforlife said:
but how long is the motor lasting? did they every mention about spunning a rod?
the maint point is how long the motor lasting. I do believe the shortblock can make over 400, but how long does it last?

Very good question. My OPINION is that if everything is ok and there is no pre-detionation then it should last a long while. My best friend has a 93 supra with around 130xxx miles. He makes almost 600rwhp on stock injectors! With a ridicules 2.2 60ft time he still runs a 11.70! We are installing a trans brake and a 100 shot of nitrous this winter. Hoping for mid/low tens at least. Fatigue life is an issue with the high mileage engines. I would bet a low (under 50,xxx miles) would last for at least 50,000 before a tear down and inspection is needed. more mileage, more things can go wrong (of course). When you push something that hard, it's a gamble. Even when tuning it, ONE foul up and POOF! it's gone. lean it out for a second! GONE. I'm game for gambling!

Brian
 

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black93hardtop said:
Very good question. My OPINION is that if everything is ok and there is no pre-detionation then it should last a long while. My best friend has a 93 supra with around 130xxx miles. He makes almost 600rwhp on stock injectors! With a ridicules 2.2 60ft time he still runs a 11.70! We are installing a trans brake and a 100 shot of nitrous this winter. Hoping for mid/low tens at least. Fatigue life is an issue with the high mileage engines. I would bet a low (under 50,xxx miles) would last for at least 50,000 before a tear down and inspection is needed. more mileage, more things can go wrong (of course). When you push something that hard, it's a gamble. Even when tuning it, ONE foul up and POOF! it's gone. lean it out for a second! GONE. I'm game for gambling!

Brian

Well for me its a question, do I trust ATS? Do I believe that their 550 rom tune setup in texas, with texan air, texan heat, texan silica in the dust... on what I will have to assume is a stock motor with a few miles on it going to work in California on 91 piss gas with my high mileage motor? Or do I have to go standalone and drop a mint to get my guy to tune it right for me?
 

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RWDforlife said:
but how long is the motor lasting? did they every mention about spunning a rod?
the maint point is how long the motor lasting. I do believe the shortblock can make over 400, but how long does it last?
I've been racing Hyde since 180K and now we took the engine out at 202,500.
The engine was perfectly fine other than a toasted headgasket.

If I would not have had the opportunity to step up to an ATS 2.2 stroker, I would have kept racing on it :)
 

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I think if your going over 300rwhp, you should drop a mint :smile:
Good tuning will make or break an engine. I have done some pretty serious projects, heavily fogged engines and turbo's the size of your head, but when it comes to my mr2, I want somebody with a ton of experience doing the tuning. I mean, people like NoShoes, RickyB and others have had so much experience with Mr2 tuning that I would trust them more then myself (I trust myself A LOT)!
 

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JekylandHyde said:
I've been racing Hyde since 180K and now we took the engine out at 202,500.
The engine was perfectly fine other than a toasted headgasket.

If I would not have had the opportunity to step up to an ATS 2.2 stroker, I would have kept racing on it :)
mm k. i've been doing some reesarch on deciding to full built my motor, not for high powers, but for longivity of my motor. I am also deciding to push 300rwhp. People on the boards always list their mods and how much power they are producing to the ground, but how long are their motors lasting? yes the stock block can handle over 500rwhp, but i doubt over 1 year.
My motor has about 130xxx miles on it and i am planning to put a gt35R turbo kit in there, with fuel upgrades and all that sort. Is it recommended that i should go ahead and build my bottom end ORRR (take the risk like all you folks here, making it seem like its ok to push the high mileage motors to 500rwhp on stock blocks)......

honestly, how long do those "stock motors" that pushes over 500rwhp last for?
 

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I'm not suggesting you do anything. I am merely reporting what I have done.
I raced for 4 years on that 180k engine expecting it to blow up.

For me, I would never in a million years want a 500 (or even 300 or 400) rwhp daily driver. That kind of power is silly to have on the street. I beat the life out of my '85 MR2 every day and it keeps me smiling, like this ----> :D
 
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