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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So there you have it, our top picks in engine choices that have swap kits. As an SW20 owner, I feel pretty lucky to have all these swap choices.

All the engines listed are fantastic! You can't go wrong with any of them. They have already proven that they are all great.

But paired to the E153, which one would be your unicorn and why?



-vs-



-vs-

 

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3SGTE----k20----2GR. IMO they are all great engines, but the 3SGTE takes the win because is going to be the cheapest to mod.
I have a couple things to say to this:

1) You gotta pay to play, sonny boy :p

2) It's not just about what you get done for your dollar, but what you get out of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My thoughts:

I think the Honda swap is totally bad ass! The real test now is on Hux and how well his k20/24 responds to the Toyota gearbox. I'm betting I'll be pretty jealous once they get their Frankenstein kit up and going. As much as I love the Racelab car, it doesn't truly represent what is feasible for 98% of the forum. A $10k+ transmission just isn't on anybody's radar anytime soon. And a PPG will make any powerful car fast no matter what it is. So I hope the cannibal kit is a success.

For me, I would definitely look into the Honda route if I had an AW11, NA SW20, or ZZW30. I certainly wouldn't rip out my gen3 for this Honda cannibal. But if I had an NA car as a project starter, the Honda motor would definitely be #1 on the list.

If this was around 4 years ago, you bet I'd definitely go for the k-series!

Just for kicks, here's a boring old stock CRV k24 motor that you can find easily and cheap at your local wreckers with a turbo kit added. If you can do all your own labor and wiring, the Honda route starts to look good. If starting with an NA car, you obviously are going to need an engine swap, do some wiring (albeit, way more with the k20/24 swap), and add a turbo package- even if you swapped for a 3sgte. It definitely will cost more doing the Honda thing when initially starting out (even starting with a regular junkyard k24a1) but I feel it'll be worth it in the end.

Would I convert an already turbo car to a Honda K20? Probably not. But an SW21, YES!

-Stock k24a1, rsx-s 6speed tranny
-comp stage 4 clutch w/ rsx-s flywheel
-afi sidewinder manifold w/ tial 38mm wastegate
-Garrett .70/.63 journal bearing turbo
-3" downpipe to a modified 3" ebay exhaust
-tuned by Matt @ DentSport on their DynoDynamics Dyno

-8psi creeping to 9psi



what do you guys think/opinions. I want to purchase the hondata 4 bar and raise the boost to around 12-14psi...
 

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Just depends on your goals.

Staying NA or turbo?
Horsepower range?
etc..

For a high horsepower NA, the k series.
Starting from scratch for a high horsepower boosted car it just depends. I am sticking with the 3s series since I have basically everything.
 

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The k series is a bad ass motor. If money was not an issue k series all the way. It is far superior for power. Again most us will never need that much and actually putting the power down is more important than just making it. The 3s is already ready to go, just build it and have at it.
 

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Don't mess with Texas
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Like was said goals and budget will determain what swap is best for you.

The 3s is a simple setup that is great for those with little mechanical know how as it bolts right in. It can also be built to do just about whatever you want, be it with less performance at any given task then the other options just due to being a lot older.

The K series is a solid motor and cheap and easy to build/replace/make power with. But the flip side to it is that it costs more time and money to get it in the car in the first place.

Which brings us to the 2gr, very pricy engine cost compared to the others but the swap is simpler then the K series. It is harder to get power out of it though until you go standalone and a bunch of other mods that the K series doesn't need.

After all of that it is still very much unproven how much power it can make/handle.

Also I want to be clear, the 2gr in NA form is just silly IMO, I do not support NA swaps of any kind. I am talking about a boosted 2gr ONLY.

In a nut shell, they are all good options and will work for different goals equally well.

I am in a debate between which of these to put in my next build at the moment myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If budget had no ceiling and I was building a 1000hp monster in combo with the e153, it'd definitely be a 2gr fully built everything with a 76mm snail. I believe it'd be much more robust and power delivery will be better than any 4 banger can offer. Displacement, ftw! Actually, at any power level, the 2gr will probably be best. The only significant downfall I see is weight.

My personal goal is ~400whp. For that level, the 3s can easily handle it so I feel it's best to just use what I have (gen3).

A stock k20r will make great power with a turbo package. But it's just that, you're only getting a stock motor. For the price of doing a full Honda conversion turbo with just a used stock internal k20a2, I can already spring for a built 3s and cams. The k-series is still better though and if given the choice, I'd take a k24 with a type R head and still be able to beat half the cars on this forum in NA trim nevermind adding a turbo.
 

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Ok let's look at the facts.... most high performance factory na motors that gets turbocharged will make more power than a factory turbocharged model... case in point.. if you turbocharged a gt3 porsche.. it will make more power than the turbo counter parts (911 turbo/gt2) because of the breathing character the engineers designed into the na head.

When comparing a k20 to a 3sgte... what do you expect it to do? I mean really. Baby cams, ultra conservative tune 2 heavy duty cats, etc ect. Now if you compare a k20 to a beams red top... the k will still out perform it but not by much and before someone comes in and show videos of the k and ask where's the beams performance videos....the beams wasn't available in the us like the k is...

Also you got to look at the cost per dollar from the whole picture. You would have to buy the k motor which isn't cheap, the swap kit, which is too expensive but still is a nice piece of change. It really depend on what you're looking for because their are quirks with the 3s also such as having to buy a stand alone right off the bat if you want to get into the mid 300 whp range and above.
 

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$500. Where are you getting that number? $1500 for a Gen3? Where are you getting that number as well? $500 is just for a k20a2 block, then you need to spend more money to get it to fit in the car.

Ebay -> Gen4 215 $900 - $1100
Ebay -> K20a2 $900 - $1200
 

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But paired to the E153, which one would be your unicorn and why?

I wouldn't cripple a k20 with an e153 if it was staying NA..

If you were going racing in a 2.0L capacity limited NA only class a k20 with 6 spd in the back of an AW with decent suspension it would be a pretty potent car.
 

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$500. Where are you getting that number? $1500 for a Gen3? Where are you getting that number as well? $500 is just for a k20a2 block, then you need to spend more money to get it to fit in the car.

Ebay -> Gen4 215 $900 - $1100
Ebay -> K20a2 $900 - $1200
I am getting that from fobangn earlier in this thread, not to mention prior experience with Hondas. Who said anything about a K20a2? I am talking CRV K24 + turbo kit like the earlier posted dyno.
 

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The thing with these motors is that the came here in the states in tons of cars. K series motors can be very, very expensive if you're buying some JDM hyped motor off of ebay or an importer.
If you're smart, you can get one from a local yard for less than $1000 for a K20a2 RSX-S 200hp 2.0 liter. You can have a k24 for really cheap. The accord/crv/element motors are less desired because they only make 160 hp, but they are still a great base to build on. You can buy a better head later on, but it's come to light that the older crv k24a1's actually have a head that flows just as good or better than the performance oriented factory offerings. They just don't have the provisions to run a full vtec lobe setup, but you can put vtec cams in them and lock them on the high lobe. Many N/A racers run this head, because you can find them for dirt cheap and they use a vtec elimination roller rocker big lobe setup anyway. A run of the mill k24 160hp can be had for as cheap as $350 for motor/harness/ecu
 

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In fairness, you should probably include the near-free 3vz,1mz, and 3mz. I have found some complete "3mz donor" cars for $139 one day. Wrecked ES330s are apparently quite obtainable.
 

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This is the way I see it.

NA power per dollar to 300+ whp: k20>2gr>3sge (<are there even enough parts for this?)
NA power potential: k20=2gr>3sge
Turbo per dollar: 5sgte>k20>2gr
Turbo potential: 2gr> k20=5sgte

The kicker. Can how hard to do a supercharged setup on a 2gr? A supercharged stock bottom end car could hold/make how much power reliably? A supercharged lotus evora has 345 hp (300 whp), so I think with a built head, intercooled, larger charger and tuned 2gr could possible go north of 400 whp on stock pistons? Also, the evora has a six speed manual. Could be an option? To me, a half built and supercharged v6 will have more reliability, wider powerband, similar weight (turbo stuff is heavy) or possibly less AND cost about (within +/- $2k) what it would to take a NA to 400 whp turbo setup. Probably LESS than a turbo K-series.

http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/index.php/engine-conversions/7-toyota-mr2-mk2-engine-conversions-/29-2gr-fe-conversion
 

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Superchargers are a waste of time, I say this after having wasted countless hours and money doing just that only to end up with performance of a bare bones turbo setup on a maxed out supercharger that died in 10k miles it was so maxed out.

Plus if you properly size the turbo with modern turbo options lag is a non-issue.
 

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How do you get the 5sgte being the best turbo to dollar?
$650 pistons
$350-$1000 rods
$300 to prep crank
$block machine work
$half filled block
$600 cams
$$$valve train
$custom crank cam sensors
on and on and on.

Or you could make 500whp on a unopened K-series that you pulled out of the yard for less than a grand.
 
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