MR2 Owners Club Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm currently conducting research on a remote mounted forced induction configuration on my NA 2grfe swapped 92 sw21.The goal is maintaining positive manifold pressure up to 4 psig with a stock motor on 93 octane . I have the fabrication side solved but the ECU and fueling is something I'm very new to.

-Will stock injectors and ECU provide safe engine management up to 4 psig of forced induction?

Cheers,
Kafe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,086 Posts
The question "can I run a turbo with stock ECU and injectors?" has been asked a million times on a million forums. If you google this question it returns about 1,580,000 results. Obviously none of these results are good enough because the question continues to be asked. For its low boost application in the 2GR-FE TRD Aurion, Toyota felt it was necessary to run a different tune from NA with different injectors from NA. You could possibly use that tune if you can get it loaded into a Camry ECU (or find someone who will do it for you), with equivalent injectors (about 500cc/min). But you'll need a boost controller.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Interesting, seems finding that tune may be a challenge. My current boost controller setup can maintain a neutral manifold pressure of 0 psig consistently through all RPM ranges, so it should be a good candidate for testing this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,086 Posts
The big difference between this and NA tunes is the load axis in the maps - in NA tunes it goes only to 100%. In this boosted tune it goes beyond that.

It seems Toyota determined that the stock MAF tube had enough airflow range for the boost level of the TVS1320 at the stock rev limit.

People have skipped over this tune for two reasons: one, there is no widely available immobilizer solution for this ECU. and two, for years there was no known way of overcoming the U0101 DTC for the missing A/T TCM, but I resolved this a few years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Incredible thanks !!!
So Kafe, how will you go about flashing this into your Camry ECU? I'm just getting back into the 2GR-FE game again and am researching this as well. I do have 440cc injectors and 525cc (?) injectors that I previously tested on my setup but ran too rich. This was years ago (pre-covid). I was working with R9K tuning from Puerto Rico, who didn't tune any U.S. vehicles at that time. Long story short, I went back to stock fuel injectors because my car was due for testing in Motor Vehicle.

I have a 2010 Toyota RAV4 V6 Sport/AWD with the 5psi Monkeywrench racing supercharger. Been running for years without issue BUT I want to improve my fueling so it doesn't run a little lean. R9k seems to be pretty busy so lookin for other alternatives. So again....How will you go about flashing this into your Camry ECU. I'll search for other stuff in here and go down the rabbit hole the next several days. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My initial idea is to use a software such as D3 Pro Tuner and modify my current ECU / a supported ECU, with the corresponding Aurion definitions. I figured this could be a way to workaround the issues as stated by merryfrankster above.

Also, I spoke with Frankenstein Motorworks today on this scenario (Tuning a Camery ECU with the Aurion tune) and they highly recommended against it. They stated the tune is a mess and basically pulls 20 degrees of timing to keep the engine in limits on 8.5 psig.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,086 Posts
My initial idea is to use a software such as D3 Pro Tuner and modify my current ECU / a supported ECU, with the corresponding Aurion definitions. I figured this could be a way to workaround the issues as stated by merryfrankster above.
Somebody tried this for supercharging a Venza. It didn't work out. Rescaling the maps is not straightforward. Rescaling the injectors is not really possible.

Also, I spoke with Frankenstein Motorworks today on this scenario (Tuning a Camery ECU with the Aurion tune) and they highly recommended against it. They stated the tune is a mess and basically pulls 20 degrees of timing to keep the engine in limits on 8.5 psig.
You are going to have to re-tune any stock ECU that you use with your turbo - this includes fueling, ignition, and vvt. You are better off starting with a tune that has the proper scale for the maps and the injectors. I am not sure why anyone would be against it. .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You are going to have to re-tune any stock ECU that you use with your turbo - this includes fueling, ignition, and vvt. You are better off starting with a tune that has the proper scale for the maps and the injectors. I am not sure why anyone would be against it. .
Sorry I should have specified, they recommend I do not use the Aurion tune and instead create my own tune on a standalone. The stock ECU I have from FMW would not be a candidate for a boost application.

I agree, the rescaling of maps and injectors is not looking like a straightforward endeavor in general. I'll keep digging though and see if there's any solutions in regards to this.

Kafe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok so now we have 1,580,001 answers to that question. It's not going to move the needle much. People will keep asking.
I'm asking the experienced memebers here if the stock 2GRFE ECU and Injector combination is able to compensate up to 4 psig of forced induction specifically. Google has not given a definitive answer on this and I wanted to run the idea past MR2OC before purchasing a standalone ECU for my project.

Kafe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
There's not 30% head room (~4/14.7 psi) in the stock injectors to my knowledge, so that's an easy answer. No, bone stock fueling cannot support 4 psi of boost safely.

Standalones are so widely available and easy to tune these days, I think the easiest solution is to go aftermarket standalone ECU. That's what you see all over the place on aftermarket FI 2GR setups.


I'm betting some sort of stock ECU solution for low boost is possible, but the effort required is likely way more than an aftermarket standalone. Is there much marketability there for such a solution? Probably not. So if you want to do the stock ECU low boost setup, you'd probably have to learn to do it yourself, which brings us back to the "it's just easier and more straight forward to go standalone."
 

·
Registered
88 Aw11
Joined
·
4 Posts
IMHO a standalone is the way to go something like the MS3Pro Evo with a wideband o2. Any time you add boost the oem ecu can only compensate so much and for conditions it was never intended to compensate for as for a mail-in reflash they aren't really going to give you the best performance or reliability since they never touch your vehicle and don't have any idea what your afr is and how your exact set up will behave under boost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Somebody tried this for supercharging a Venza. It didn't work out.
You recall what didn't work out about it? I thought it was more that he didn't have a good tune that caused the engine damage.. not that the software didn't work?

In my 2GRFE, I'm running 5.2 psi (6lb wastegate spring) with 440cc injectors, DW200 fuel pump, Aeromotive AFPR with 93oct on a R9KTuned reflash and it seems to be running great with my midmount turbo setup. Plan on trying to dyno soon and hopefully turn the boost up slightly with my EBC.

I've had issues with cv axles lately when launching so I may switch my wastegate spring out for a 4psi one. I'll use a "boost by gear" feature so that in 1st gear I can hit 4psi wastegate pressure then have increased boost pressure in the other gears.
 

·
Registered
1991 Toyota MR2
Joined
·
154 Posts
IMHO a standalone is the way to go something like the MS3Pro Evo with a wideband o2. Any time you add boost the oem ecu can only compensate so much and for conditions it was never intended to compensate for as for a mail-in reflash they aren't really going to give you the best performance or reliability since they never touch your vehicle and don't have any idea what your afr is and how your exact set up will behave under boost.
MS3PRO doesn't support drive by wire, so thats out for the 2GR.


iirc Marc at FMW has mentioned the stock ECU has some headroom for boost but he's never really messed with it since he's never had a boosted car to test it on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,086 Posts
This is going over info that has been covered before. Here it is as a refresher.

Depending on what stock 2GR ECU you use, the MAF calibrations top out at between 300-340 g/s of airflow (yes there is this much variation between calibrations). Rule of thumb is multiply by 1.25 for BHP so 375 to 425 BHP.

If you use the FMW intake, it tops out at 430 g/s so it supports a significantly higher horsepower.

For the injector size, you can use any of the online injector flowrate calculators, like this one for example or this one. The HP supported by the stock 360cc/min injectors is anemically low for a turbo, only slightly more than 300hp according to the calculators, accounting for the enrichment required with a turbo.

I am not sure why people would rather turn to tribal or anectodal info instead of calculating an answer analytically and I am not sure how the same people would do if they are faced with a situation where there is nobody around to spoonfeed them a correct answer. Andy Wyatt formerly of Adaptronics who is a tuning guru calls this approach Cargo Cult Tuning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
This thread isn't about challenging the reasons someone chooses a particular project or the methods they use. This thread is to answer the question at hand for experienced and novice builders.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top