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Discussion Starter #1
so i recently installed my 3rd clutch into my 2gr-fe swap.

1st one was an exeedy stage 2 which did not hold the torque at all.

2nd one was a ACT 6 puck with their HD clutch. the pedal effort was high but acceptable to me, opinions vary on this. i got over 25k miles out of it and in the end the rivets started touching the flywheel.

the 3rd one that i recently installed is the clutchmasters FX400 again with a 6 puck sprung disk. the nice thing about it is they grind the rivets down a bit and have about 25% more usable clutch thickness than ACT. also, the pedal pressure is lighter. time will tell if this is too little pressure, but for now it holds great at any power level the 2gr puts out. i want to break it in a bit more before i do any launches with it.

overall, i think clutchmasters makes a better clutch disk (the ground rivets for longer life) but i'm concerned the pressure plate might lead to a lower life. but i definitely could be wrong. pedal pressure isn't linear with what is seen at the clutch. it might be a different leverage ratio and it might just last longer. we'll see.

i also installed TRD motor mounts all around and I'm very happy with that. it's removed quite a bit of the drivetrain wind-up without adding much vibration inside the chassis.
 

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Good to get somemore feedback regarding clutch options. I've got the ACT 6 puk and thought the pedal pressure was mentally high initially, but with the car been an n/a it didn't have the Turbo spring assisters which makes a massive difference now I have them fitted.
I'm fairly happy with the pedal effort now, but the chattering at low revs takes some adjusting to drive around. I was thinking of going for a friction disk similar to oem and maybe the clamping pressure of the ACT pressure plate is enough to hold it? Who knows.
How much was the clutchmasters?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Gripper said:
Good to get somemore feedback regarding clutch options. I've got the ACT 6 puk and thought the pedal pressure was mentally high initially, but with the car been an n/a it didn't have the Turbo spring assisters which makes a massive difference now I have them fitted.
I'm fairly happy with the pedal effort now, but the chattering at low revs takes some adjusting to drive around. I was thinking of going for a friction disk similar to oem and maybe the clamping pressure of the ACT pressure plate is enough to hold it? Who knows.
How much was the clutchmasters?
the problem isn't the friction material. the problem is the lack of the marcel spring. this page describes it: http://www.mooregoodink.com/news/?m=200906

but i don't know of any clutch manufacturers that make a compatible disk with that setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
fasteddy91 said:
did you have to drop the engine and tranny as a whole or just the tranny?

Thanks.
i dropped everything together, but that's not really a good compairaison. personally i think it's easier that way and that's how i always do it. i can never get the trans aligned properly while under the car. instead i just set the engine on it's nose and set the transmission on it.

if i wasn't such a big guy i might do it differently.

the whole thing was out in 2.5 hours and i took my time for reassembly so that took about 4 hours.

also, i've got a vacuum tool for the coolant, so the whole MR2 system gets bled in minutes without opening all the extra ports.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
DaveMush said:
what was the cost on your latest clutch assy? I wonder what the cost on a Lotus clutch would be.
i bought it several months ago, but i seem to recall it was right around $500 and clutchmaster's site says $475. so somewhere around there.

lotus' setup uses an internal slave cylinder. there's no guarantee that the pressure plate bolt pattern would bolt to the 1mz flywheel.
 

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clutchnet makes some discs that are non sprung center bug and use marcel layers.
They have sprung and unsprung for pretty much every disc material combination you can think of. I would like to try a non sprung center hub with a marcel material as he sprung hubs with a grippier disc ( 6, 4, and 3 pucks) seem to grab too well at lower rpm so you end up with the catch / release duh duh duh duh duh like wheel hob vibrating the whole car when you are just trying to pull forward in a drivethrough.. Eventually you get in the habit of slipping it at 3k instead of 1200 rpm but it looks like you havee no clue how to drive with a clutch when you do that..
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Jared said:
clutchnet makes some discs that are non sprung center bug and use marcel layers.
They have sprung and unsprung for pretty much every disc material combination you can think of. I would like to try a non sprung center hub with a marcel material as he sprung hubs with a grippier disc ( 6, 4, and 3 pucks) seem to grab too well at lower rpm so you end up with the catch / release duh duh duh duh duh like wheel hob vibrating the whole car when you are just trying to pull forward in a drivethrough.. Eventually you get in the habit of slipping it at 3k instead of 1200 rpm but it looks like you havee no clue how to drive with a clutch when you do that..
can you give a link to a ceramic disk that fits the 3s-gte application and has that marcel spring?

using an unsprung center is really bad on your transmission input spline. but yeah, it should make the engagement smoother also
 

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My only complaint with the act with the 6 puck sprung disc is the clutch chatter at idle which goes away when I engage the clutch. Clutch master have any less chatter?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
eliottcars said:
My only complaint with the act with the 6 puck sprung disc is the clutch chatter at idle which goes away when I engage the clutch. Clutch master have any less chatter?
you're not talking about chatter, you're talking about rattle from the center hub.

that comes from not having pre-load on the center hub springs. I'll listen to it on the drive to work today, i don't think the clutchmasters does it.
 

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I guess they do not have a marcell + solid hub disc in the catalog for the mk2. I have seen them before, but I do not think they were ceramic material. They will build you pretty much anything you ask for though. From what I have read, every disc is made to order anyways so a custom disc is not something out of the ordinary for them. I think the marcell was with the organic disc though as the friction surface has to flex a tiny bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
eliottcars said:
My only complaint with the act with the 6 puck sprung disc is the clutch chatter at idle which goes away when I engage the clutch. Clutch master have any less chatter?
i turned off the radio on the drive this morning and there is still a bit of rattle with this new clutch.

Jared said:
I guess they do not have a marcell + solid hub disc in the catalog for the mk2. I have seen them before, but I do not think they were ceramic material. They will build you pretty much anything you ask for though. From what I have read, every disc is made to order anyways so a custom disc is not something out of the ordinary for them. I think the marcell was with the organic disc though as the friction surface has to flex a tiny bit.
yeah, very few people make the ceramic with marcel layer because it requires them to use a custom disk instead of using ceramic inserts. just not enough thickness for it otherwise. it will also add a bit of rotational inertia to everything. but if they have a disk already with the right ID and OD for the MR2 friction surface putting a different center in it would be easy for them.

are you going to contact them?
 

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I was not planning on it. I am actually going to use an exedy stock clutch whenever I get my 3mz project re-started.
I took some videos of a large selection of clutch / flywheel / pressure plates this weekend. I have not added descriptions and tags etc yet to them, but I do have a few clutchnet discs covered:
http://www.youtube.com/user/jdchmiel/videos
a sprung 6 puck, sprung 4 puck, some oem toyota, and some exedy stock and race clutch discs for comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
well, bad news guys. I got to drive the MR2 aggressively yesterday and this new clutch disappointed.

i was behind a diesel pickup that was "tuned" to smoke bad, i passed him on the shoulder because he was intentionally covering me in soot. and then he gave chase.

i had to scoot to get out of there because you can't win a crash between a 7000lb lifted pickup versus an MR2. i power shifted 1st to 2nd at over 6000rpms and i got a whole lot of disappointment, the clutch slipped for a bit, i had to lift the gas and let the clutch grab before i could get back in it.

thankfully, being ceramic, it did not glaze anything over, the clutch was fine again right away. but it's not good enough for this motor if you're giving it all it's got.

that said, i think i still recommend the clutchmasters clutch disk. the fact that they grind down the rivets will give a much longer clutch life. but it will be dramatically shortened if this happens regularly. unfortunately they do not have a heavier pressure plate available for this application. going to the 4 disk will concentrate the pressure and may make just enough of a difference but i'm not sure i'd gamble my time and money on trying that.

twindisk isn't an option with clutchmasters, they don't make the flywheel for the V6 application. and also they don't have one with both center sections sprung.

so i've got some seraching to do, i'd like to find a clutch with the following characteristics:
1)marcel sprung
2)full face ceramic surface or close for smoother engagement and longer life
3)sprung center hub with preloaded springs to eliminate the idle rattle
4)pressure plate with 35-40% more pressure at the clutch plate (also, it would be nice if the clutch effort wasn't 35-40% harder using modified geometry, but i'll deal with it if i have to)

I suspect we'll be talking about a custom clutch to achieve this. until then, my recommendation for the 2gr clutch setup is:

1)fidanza lightweight flywheel (PN# 130881) (replacement insert is #229501)
2)clutchmasters FX400 6 puck sprung disk (not sure if available separately)
3)ACT HD pressure plate (PN# T023)
 

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I've been pretty happy with my ACT HD-SS. So far I've only got about 8000 miles on it. I haven't noticed any chatter (although I always had the stereo on). It's definitely stiffer then an OEM clutch, but it's really not that bad at all (assuming that you have the turbo pedal with helper springs).

It doesn't meet all your requirement as it's organic and I'm pretty confident that it doesn't use the marcel spring.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
immorality said:
I've been pretty happy with my ACT HD-SS. So far I've only got about 8000 miles on it. I haven't noticed any chatter (although I always had the stereo on). It's definitely stiffer then an OEM clutch, but it's really not that bad at all (assuming that you have the turbo pedal with helper springs).

It doesn't meet all your requirement as it's organic and I'm pretty confident that it doesn't use the marcel spring.
that one is rated for 390lb*ft and has the pressure plate that some people complain about the clutch feel on, but personally i like that pressure plate.

I don't like organic in an application like this because it isn't nearly as forgiving of driving aggressively, once you overheat it, it's holding power is compromised significantly.

the clutchmasters says "Holding capacity 170% over stock" which is a completely worthless statement because nobody knows what a stuck clutch is rated for. also, I find it suspicious since my 2gr dyno'd at pretty much exactly 70% more torque than my 3s-gte did on the exact same dyno.
 
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