Fuel Pump - Confirming it's dead - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old June 19th, 2019, 20:02 Thread Starter
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Question Fuel Pump - Confirming it's dead

Greetings! Car sat for about 2 years, went to start up and it turns, but no ignition at all. Gas smells alright. Following threads on mr2oc.com, I ran the following tests:

1. Listened for Fuel Pump - nothing.
2. Pulled fuel line from filter, turned car to on - nothing, no fuel from line at all
3. Jumpered +B and FP, turned car to on - nothing
4. Tested +B to ground - 12v
5. Tested bridging +B to FP - 12v
6. Opened console, there are 3 signal wires and 2 power wires for the fuel pump
a. Tested signal wires - 12v
b. Tested power wires - 12v
c. Tested continuity on Fuel Pump power wires - ~64 on my multimeter's 200k setting. Far as I know should be 0 if there is a solid connection, but I am not too familiar with continuity tests

Have I missed anything? My thinking is FP is fubar'd. It appears I am getting power and signal all the way to the fuel pump, yet no fuel comes out of the lines at all. I can't hear it, but I am also not familiar with what I am listening for either.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you!
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old June 19th, 2019, 21:39
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That's pretty much it. If you have confirmed you have +12V and ground on the pump supply wires under ash tray and no pump sound its as dead as a doodoo. Apart from checking continuity across terminals I'd possibly jumper a 12v battery onto pump terminals and see if you can get to turn. Could even reverse polarity to se if it would turn backwards but I'd only do this if it fails all other tests.

Hate to tell you but replacing the FP is probably the worst job to do on a MR2 turbo. To make it easier, drop only the front of the tank while leaving rear hoses, etc connected. Need a hoist to do this so hopefully you have a nice Mechanic friend.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old June 19th, 2019, 22:30 Thread Starter
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Yeah I heard it's a 3 hour or so job to drop the tank. Just a driveway for me unfortunately. I wonder if it can be done without needing to drain coolant. I think I saw a video of a guy dropping the tank by moving the hoses to the sides without disconnecting anything.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old June 19th, 2019, 23:05
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Yes can do without dropping coolant but this is the least of your problems. Main difficulty is access to the lines behind engine firewall due to turbo placement. Have to break a fuel supply fitting free which is near impossible. If you can raise vehicle high enough to only drop front of tank it will save your sanity. It has to be very high though to remove FP and carrier.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old June 20th, 2019, 00:39 Thread Starter
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Well that gives me something to go with. I'll have to plan this thing out and I have plenty of time. I'm overhauling the car on a budget. The 93 jdm motor is in good condition, and is getting a gen3 electronics swap. So I'll be pulling much out of the engine bay anyways. I can plan to take out the CT27 turbo as well, not a huge deal except the coolant lines going to it. I have to do a timing belt and some other things on it as well.

If my driveway is fairly flat, my best bet will probably be to invest in a car cover and some race ramps. I can jack the rear end up, place it on race ramps, and that should be safe and high enough to pull the tank while doing everything else anyways.

Thank you for the information, this has been very helpful!
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old June 26th, 2019, 18:44
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If you’re dropping the engine, the fuel pump is easy to do while it’s out - sit yourself down in the engine bay.

Having recently done the fuel pump, I would suggest replacing the solid fuel lines with braided lines, that way you’re not trying to line up solid lines with 3” sections of hose in an opening that you’d need to be quadruple-jointed to get to with the engine in.

In hindsight I’d also switch to an in-line fuel pump outside of the tank so you never need to touch the fuel tank ever again.

I didn’t do either of these, and it took 3 tries to get the tank back in and properly aligned, and I’m still fighting a leaky fuel return that I can either see or barely touch, but not both together.

If I had a mechanic I trusted, I’d have gladly paid someone else to do the job. I can’t say that about anything else I’ve done to the car.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old June 26th, 2019, 19:24
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I also replaced most of the hardlines to and from tank but for a different reason. Decided to make the in tank pump able to be replaced without dropping tank. This required a well placed and sealed access hatch from centre console. Id personally stick with the in tank pump unless it cannot meet your fuel requirements. This then gets quite complicated which may require 2 pumps and seperate surge tank.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old June 26th, 2019, 19:57
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It is absolutely possible to remove and reinstall the tank as well as the firewall heat shields with the turbo engine in the car. It is not necessary to drain the coolant or remove the motor. On my lift the fuel pump install is about 3-4 hours out and back in with the engine in place. There is one ear of the heat shields I have to bend a bit to get over the fuel filler tube on the larger heat shield, but it's fairly flexible material and doesn't cause any permanent damage. I don't think you can lower the front end of the tank only to remove as the hard lines from the hanger go all the way out the back. Please don't cut your center console . It is possible to remove the line all the way from the bottom of the fuel filter with the tank if you route everything and work slowly if you can't break the flare nut loose behind the heat shields (I do this by default now so as to not have to deal with the flare nut). You'll need to remove the front engine mount and disconnect the shifter cables.

To test your wiring 100% -- connect the power and ground from the ash tray to another fuel pump before removing or installing anything. if you key on and that pump runs then you know wiring is good to go. The other 3 signal wire connection there is for the fuel level sender and has nothing to do with the fuel pump.


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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old June 27th, 2019, 20:32
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Oh yeah, I wasn't considering dropping the motor, I just wasn't sure about the coolant hard lines running on the sides of the tank. It looks like they can be unbolted and moved out of the way slightly with whatever give the rubber lines have.

My challenge is measuring the driveway with a line level to make sure it's not beyond 3% pitch, buying chalks and a new jack, and getting it high enough to fit underneath safely while wrenching at it and not have it coming down =)

I'm actually considering doing the lift in two steps, rear first then the front. That ways there always two wheels on the ground for stability. I can disconnect all the lines, remove the rear brace. Then jack up the front, remove the front brace and drop to ground.

Besides this the rest is easy. 3rd gen electronics set going in, I'll have the bored rail cleaned and injectors flow tested, standard tune up pieces and a new timing belt. Just have to find a pigtail for the pre-turbo IAT and hope all the gen3 electronics work.

There is definitely 12v coming from the fuel power supply wires. I did notice the 3 wires are for the level sensor. Since I am buying a new fuel pump anyways, I will do that test to make sure it turns on, confirming the power is good. This is a good tip =)
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old June 27th, 2019, 23:05
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The lower coolant lines can simply be pushed to one side after the holding brackets are removed. The upper ones remain in place and don't cause any issues with dropping of tank. No need to drain any coolant.

Can do FP replacement on your driveway with jackstands. Just make sure you chalk the tyres sufficiently when raising car. I always use the chassis rail where OEM jack fits for the stands but spread the load with a slotted 2x4 brace.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old June 28th, 2019, 20:46
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Originally Posted by mr2advanced View Post
Oh yeah, I wasn't considering dropping the motor, I just wasn't sure about the coolant hard lines running on the sides of the tank. It looks like they can be unbolted and moved out of the way slightly with whatever give the rubber lines have.

My challenge is measuring the driveway with a line level to make sure it's not beyond 3% pitch, buying chalks and a new jack, and getting it high enough to fit underneath safely while wrenching at it and not have it coming down =)

I'm actually considering doing the lift in two steps, rear first then the front. That ways there always two wheels on the ground for stability. I can disconnect all the lines, remove the rear brace. Then jack up the front, remove the front brace and drop to ground.

Besides this the rest is easy. 3rd gen electronics set going in, I'll have the bored rail cleaned and injectors flow tested, standard tune up pieces and a new timing belt. Just have to find a pigtail for the pre-turbo IAT and hope all the gen3 electronics work.

There is definitely 12v coming from the fuel power supply wires. I did notice the 3 wires are for the level sensor. Since I am buying a new fuel pump anyways, I will do that test to make sure it turns on, confirming the power is good. This is a good tip =)
Also make sure to test the pump in the tank before installing it back up in the car. Also when you get the tank back up and held in place with at least one brace make sure the wires for the sender and pump are free and able to be pulled up into the hole under the ash tray and not trapped under the brass heater core lines.

As for jacking the car up, I always preferred to do side to side with a 2x4 just inside the lower lip to put it on 4 jackstands, YMMV.


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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old June 28th, 2019, 20:50
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Originally Posted by benckj View Post
The lower coolant lines can simply be pushed to one side after the holding brackets are removed. The upper ones remain in place and don't cause any issues with dropping of tank. No need to drain any coolant.

Can do FP replacement on your driveway with jackstands. Just make sure you chalk the tyres sufficiently when raising car. I always use the chassis rail where OEM jack fits for the stands but spread the load with a slotted 2x4 brace.
the slotted 2x4 brace is a good idea -- but make sure you run the grain cross ways to the body lip -- been there, didn't do that many many moons ago... :-(


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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 10:54
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Also always check the heater lines above the fuel tank for cracks by the rear brackets above the fuel tank. It requires removing the fuel tank to repair so it's best to go ahead and look for signs of leaking before reinstalling the tank. There will be obvious corrosion (green/black) on the brass lines if they have cracked and are leaking adjacent to the rear brackets.


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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 12:48
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I received my new pump and ran the test of hooking it up to the 12v power supply - failed. Looks like I'm getting 1v off that line now. I tested my multimeter against the cigarette lighter circuit, ~13v. Something changed, so I'm going back to test the rest of the system.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 13:01
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Update: Bridging B+ to ground shows ~13v. Bridging B+ to FP shows ~5v. Not sure what is going on here.

The only thing I've done since the first test was remove the instrument cluster and dash. I don't think any part of that wiring has anything to do with the Fuel Pump power, but maybe I'm wrong?
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 13:10
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My goof, Have to plug in the fuel pump to test B+ to FP, reads 13v. Unfortunately still getting 1v at the pump.

Update:

I think I made a mistake during my first test. I believe when I tested the fuel pump power the first time, I had B+ and FP jumpered, which showed the 12v. Without it jumpered, it only gets 1v, even right after turning the key on. Starting to look like the relay, but doing more research.

Last edited by mr2advanced; July 5th, 2019 at 13:21.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 14:23
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It’s such a PITA job to replace you want to make sure it’s the problem. I used a DC power supply and jumped straight onto FP lead for confirmation. Could do same with battery.

Having a fuel pressure gauge also helps as when mine died I saw the pressure jumping around on engine start up which was unusual. Failed shortly after and I learned why during postmordum. One of the brushes stuck open off communtator as motor wasn’t shimmed correctly from factory.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 14:43
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I don't see any mention of this so far: You can remove the ashtray and straight underneath are the two two-wire connectors one for the fuel pump and one for the fuel sender. Should be obvious which is which. You can power the fuel pump directly right there with a small 12v lantern battery from the hardware store and a coupla alligator clip wires. If the fuel pump runs when powered you can work backward with the wiring. Otherwise drop the tank.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 15:28
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Yeah, I was testing direct from the power wires under ashtray, that's where I made my goof and then properly discovered I did not have 12v there UNLESS B+ and FP were jumped.

So....rather embarrassing issue. The car is now running. The issue was a loose fuel relay connector. It looked and felt like it was seated all the way, but in fact the connector release tab is broken and it had backed out. Seated all the way in, and wallah! car starts.

I do have a fuel leak i need to work out though. It doesn't look like it's coming from the fuel filter that I replaced, it looks like it coming from closer to the tank. That's a job for tomorrow.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old July 5th, 2019, 19:53
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Yeah, I was testing direct from the power wires under ashtray, that's where I made my goof and then properly discovered I did not have 12v there UNLESS B+ and FP were jumped.

So....rather embarrassing issue. The car is now running. The issue was a loose fuel relay connector. It looked and felt like it was seated all the way, but in fact the connector release tab is broken and it had backed out. Seated all the way in, and wallah! car starts.

I do have a fuel leak i need to work out though. It doesn't look like it's coming from the fuel filter that I replaced, it looks like it coming from closer to the tank. That's a job for tomorrow.
I'm assuming the relay you're referring to is the one located on the resistor pack bracket on the rear firewall -- if so I normally bypass that relay with jumper as i've seen engines blow due to that relay failing. The down side is more pump noise idling as it will make it have 12-14v all the time when the pump is running. If you want to bypass that relay (and the resistor pack with 2 wires coming out of it): the two blue wires with black stripe on the connector to the fuel pump hi/lo relay need to be connected together, and the other two will do nothing after that. The relay and 2 wire resistor pack can then be removed from the car.


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