Wheel rattle - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2019, 20:03 Thread Starter
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Wheel rattle

The front wheel rattles when it's jacked off the ground and I think it's a wheel bearing but wondering if it's something else. I jacked it up and can shake it lightly and hear it rattle around and see it wobble... I'm going to be doing coilovers when they get here in 4 to 6 weeks (now more like 2 to 4 weeks) so I don't want to do coilovers and then have the wheel fall off because of something I could fix while I have the wheels off.

TL;DR wheel wobbles, should I go with my gut and swap out the wheel bearings in the front or could it be something else?

And a pretty picture of it for fun.

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2019, 21:03
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Does this make any noises when driving. A wheel bearing generally will when it's on the way out especially olif the bearing is bad enough the wheel can physically wobble. But not always

This could also be a ball joint or tie rod end. Is this wobble directional? What I mean by that is when this one side is jacked up does the wheel wobble in and out from the top but not side to side? Side to side would be a tie rod end any vertical movement would tend to be ball joint on the lower control arm.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2019, 22:22 Thread Starter
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It wobbles in ever direction. And clicks.. it won't move in and out just up down left right diagonally.... Every which way but in and out. It's only a few millimeters I think, barely visible but still you can hear and feel it.

Pulling it into the garage just now I noticed a faint clicking at really low speed and a hard turn so needless to say I won't be driving it. But could anything else be making it do this?

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old March 27th, 2019, 22:24 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleshfeast View Post
What I mean by that is when this one side is jacked up does the wheel wobble in and out from the top but not side to side?
I just put my jack under the front and poped the whole front in the air to be honest... It's 3 tons so it could lift the whole car haha.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2019, 00:42
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I'd honestly still lean towards ball joints and tie rod ends. Wheel bearings generally make a noise long before they get any slop. Our cars have a wide press fit needle bearing that doesn't really permit and lateral movement unless they are very very bad and I'd be amazed if you hadn't heard that long ago.

To better check the lower ball joint you can lift the front end and put it on some jack stands. Then put some pressure on the lower control arm with the jack. DIRECTLY under the ball joint right below the strut, don't do this in the middle or you can bend the contol arm. Now use a pry bar and try to lift the steering knuckle that the bearing and wheel mount to away from the control arm. Any lift or play here and it should be replaced. You just need a bit of pressure to brace the control arm so you can better see the knuckle lift away from the control arm block of wood wedged under is just as good just something to lock it solid from pushing downwards when you use the pry bar. I'd guess you'l see some movement. If you need one it just unbolts from the knuckle but you'l likely need a pickle fork to pop it out then 2 bolts on the contol arm.
Tie rods are a but more cumbersome. Put one wheel on the ground and it helps to turn the steering wheel key out till it locks. Then just by hand move the lifted wheel right and left. It will probably appear to move a bit. Remember there's two outer tie rods that do wear and two inner tie rods that wear much less. A very slight bit of movement even within limits on all 4 like 1/4mm on each will add up together and you'l see 1mm movement total. Visually see where the movement is at the tie rods if it's unperceptable at the tie rod ends your probably good.
Any noises while doing this and just replace whats making a noise. Any ripped boots on these joints requires replacement or you will be doing it in very short order anyway.

Any suspension parts you replace will require an alignement. If I where doing shock or coilover replacement I'd just do all this anyway, get an alignment and have some piece of mind. I've never priced any of these parts but there's nothing special down there this should be quite reasonably priced and tighten up the front end immensely.

This is your steering, if it's outside your abilities seek help.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2019, 07:11 Thread Starter
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I appreciate the in depth on how to troubleshoot the suspension up front. I've got to get it all dropped off to do coilovers here soon and I'll look closer at everything. I'm pretty sure my bearing gave out but looking at the other things while I'm in there is a great idea. The car was parked for a long time till yesterday so I couldn't tell you if it was louder or got louder or what but it's parked again till my coilovers get here and I can replace the wheel bearing and anything else I find loose.

I know bearings go out slowly getting louder over time because that's how my rear bearings went a year back. Since I was going to replace my input shaft any way I replaced them and the ride quieted down a lot.

This honestly feels like whatever is holding the wheel hub is... Well I'd say 'wallered out' but I don't know if that makes sense so "not holding it as tight" would mean the same thing. Thanks again.



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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2019, 14:56
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^^^^^^^^^
Have the suspension pros who will be installing the coilovers diagnose and repair your issue(s). And be sure your alignment includes corner balancing.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old March 28th, 2019, 15:43 Thread Starter
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Ummmmmm.... I'm the "pro" that will be installing the coilovers and when I get it aligned I'll see if anywhere near here does corner balancing.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2019, 15:19 Thread Starter
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***Update***

I pulled the wheel off and checked everything. The hub (or the thing with all the studs on it... Not great with proper names) is the only thing moving. I'll point to it... Everything else is tight and doesn't wiggle. Without the wheel on it wiggles a lot less but it is the only thing moving. 80 to get the new bearings pressed in... Or a lot of sucking up to the wife and 180 for a new 20 ton press to do it myself.... Hmmmm

Oh and no one within 5 hours does or has even heard of corner balancing. So that's fun. Hell half the shops I called to price an alignment told me that stock the car is too low to do... Toyota said they would for 85 plus tax so that's the winner... When I get my coilovers and the bearing done that is.

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Last edited by mubeta23; March 29th, 2019 at 15:31.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2019, 18:00
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Random alignment shops won't do that. You need some sort of race shop that will have that equipment.

Chase Race in Duvall, will. Not sure who else.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2019, 18:32
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That is the hub. Glad you got it sorted out.

No part shop ever seems to stock this style of large diameter needle bearing if youd lost it out and about. Tapered roller bearings you can find all day long in stock for damn near anything though.

I lost the rear wheel bearing on a mazda rx7 while on a cross canada road trip and i was pretty much screwed. 2 days i got stuck in Dryden waiting for that part to come in. Trust me there is absolutely nothing to do in Dryden for 2 days.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2019, 21:02 Thread Starter
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Yeah I found one but they have a Dyno so they apparently make enough money to not return calls or be opened on Friday Saturday or Sunday.. so that's fun. I'm gonna keep looking around. Thanks.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old March 29th, 2019, 21:11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleshfeast View Post
That is the hub. Glad you got it sorted out.

No part shop ever seems to stock this style of large diameter needle bearing if youd lost it out and about. Tapered roller bearings you can find all day long in stock for damn near anything though.

I lost the rear wheel bearing on a mazda rx7 while on a cross canada road trip and i was pretty much screwed. 2 days i got stuck in Dryden waiting for that part to come in. Trust me there is absolutely nothing to do in Dryden for 2 days.
Thanks for verification haha I suck at that proper name thing some times..

Yeah when the back ones were going I was driving to work and realized I couldn't hear my radio... I thought it was engine and ended up cussing when I pushed in the clutch and it didn't get quieter haha. I decided to drop the motor for a clutch/ tranny fix so I handed the back hubs and the new bearing to an offroad shop lol. That was only $20 here they want an arm and a leg just to press a little.

I feel like "losing" that bearing would result in me missing a very important bit of rubber and aluminum... I donno in my head I see the wheel coming off, flipping me the bird and riding off into the sunset blaring white snake while I deal with a three legged mr2 who just learned how to imitate a lawn dart very effectively.. I think it's called "over active imagination"....

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2019, 08:03
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Just a heads-up when you do it yourself...you might spend a few hours (only a few hours if you are lucky) on removing the inner race of the old bearing which is frequently stuck to the hub axle stub. My recommendation is to be prepared for this situation before you get started rather than starting the job and then finding out you are stuck.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old March 30th, 2019, 09:13 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tdaustinmr2 View Post
Just a heads-up when you do it yourself...you might spend a few hours (only a few hours if you are lucky) on removing the inner race of the old bearing which is frequently stuck to the hub axle stub. My recommendation is to be prepared for this situation before you get started rather than starting the job and then finding out you are stuck.
I appreciate it. Yeah I got a few cut off wheels if that's going to be a pain. And an air hammer with a chisel lol.



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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old April 5th, 2019, 16:18 Thread Starter
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Update.

It was the wheel bearing. The inner race was off. Somehow the big old nut loosened just enough to let the inner race unseat causing the wheel to wobble. I got it replaced and now it just seems tight but that's the new bearing. It doesn't seem to bind or wabble, just not spinning as freely as I'd like.

Also the inner race stuck to the shaft and I rigged up a fairly scary looking solution. I took pics for everyone. I know it wasn't safe as can be but it worked and didn't hurt anyone. Also I didn't put much pressure on it, it just slid out with minimal pressure on the press.

Gotta take the wife and daughter to dinner so will do the other side tomorrow and be done till the coilovers get here.

Also does anyone know a better way of getting the back cap off? Mine came off but it wasn't easy or pretty.. I bent it and had to hammer it back to shape after. It went back on fine just looking for a better way for the next one..

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old April 17th, 2019, 00:34
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Looks like you did buy a press. Man I bet you started pressing that and sort of squinted your eyes and stood back waiting for the worst haha.
Be careful using questionable things to hold your parts steady. Some metals have an unexpected amount of spring to them.

Do yourself a favour and get some steel plate 3/8 or so 4" wide or more and cut a shallow V into the end. I like to use 2, slip them under the part your trying to hold steady one on either end and support that by some solid square stock if needed. Quick and easy way to hold things secure.
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