Kinugawa forged wastegate actuator - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2015, 15:21 Thread Starter
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Question Kinugawa forged wastegate actuator

Anyone else using one of these actuators? How close is the boost pressure (boost controller off) related to the installed spring?

I installed the actuator with the 14 lb spring and Im only getting ~7psi. I uninstalled it checked the spring and re installed it same thing. Double checked and set preload something...

If Im going to lose half the spring rate I might as well install the 22 lb spring.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2015, 18:12
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I'm running it on my TD06 with a 14lb spring, holds boost perfectly. You most likely have the same issue I had where the actuator was not closing all the way, mine was just *slightly* open and it describes your problem exactly. Check out my threads here:

https://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=503274

https://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=513466
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2015, 18:40 Thread Starter
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i think i had the same issue as your first post during my first install. I was so sure that they had sent the wrong spring I ordered another 14lb took it out, checked, but it was right. put the new one in anyway, same think. Put a little less pre load on it during the 2nd install. It spools crazy fast but right around 7/8 psi it must open.

i should also say its a 20b, but i think the actuator is the same, they just swap brackets. Maybe the 26/20b having 2 ports on the wastegate side has something to do with it... idk
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2015, 21:08
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7psi is right where mine started to bleed off boost, that is exactly what mine did. The actuator is the same so no difference in how the perform. Yours has two ports right? I'd check that actuator and the wastegate flap, my money is on it not being closed. I am so sure of it lol
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old July 19th, 2015, 10:03
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Actuator "piston area" VS. Flapper area... The spring ratings for any WG are not gospel, just a reference. Don't forget backpressure, it has an effect too.

Scott

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old July 21st, 2015, 13:59 Thread Starter
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“The spring ratings for any WG are not gospel, just a reference.”

I think that is the info I needed. I’m confident enough in my install, both of them, to think that the 14lb spring only equates to holding ~7psi at least on the 20b. Plus it explains why I have to run 90% wg duty to get near 15 psi.

On back pressure, KO downpipe and berk exhaust, so I’ll need to keep an eye on it when I have to swap in my emissions test pipe.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2015, 11:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadjo View Post
“The spring ratings for any WG are not gospel, just a reference.”

On back pressure, KO downpipe and berk exhaust, so I’ll need to keep an eye on it when I have to swap in my emissions test pipe.
He means in front of the turbine, where the wastegate pucks are located. That pressure exerted on the area of the pucks produces a force that's being balanced by the pressure on the wastegate diaphragm's area plus the spring. If pre-turbine pressure is way higher than boost pressure, it will result in more force than the spring in the gate can balance and it will open sooner.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2015, 12:41 Thread Starter
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I understand.

I could see a possibility that the 20b/26 (2nd gen anyway) having 2 pucks could be throwing off their expected spring rate. More surface area on the wg ports equates to more pressure the spring must hold. I ordered the 22lb spring, I’ll report back what it actually holds.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old July 27th, 2015, 22:02 Thread Starter
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22lb spring I'm getting 10-11

Consistently about half the spring rate. This one works for me.
Maybe someone will find this useful. I’ll be interested to see if anyone else has a similar experience.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old July 27th, 2015, 23:24
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Wonder why internal WG's with actuator seem to be more accurate. Mine is rated at 7psi and that's almost exactly what I get when I turn EBC off. OEM systems much the same. Placement of gate next to turbine I presume??

jim
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old March 31st, 2016, 01:01
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Tadjo,

I got the Mamba Actuator (Apparently its supposed to be slightly better than the Kinugawa one as it won't tear diaphrams) and have found the same thing. I started with the yellow spring rated to 0.8bar/12psi and found it cracked open at ~0.6bar. Needed 90% duty on the boost controller to get 1.2bar from it.

Changed the spring to the Black one (Rated 1.2 bar/18psi) and found it cracked the wastegate open at ~0.75bar.

Changed the spring to the Blue one (rated 1.5bar /22psi) and found it cracked the wastegate open at ~0.85bar-0.9bar

Now I'm changing it to the Red one (rated 1.65bar /24psi) and am hoping it will crack open and hold 1bar.

Its been frustrating as the car will creep to 1-1.05bar on the ct20b with every other spring I've tried so far. The Electronic boost controller doesn't like this, which is why I've replaced the actuator in search of reliable/consistent boost control.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2016, 14:21
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I have this issue and wonder what happened with the red spring. ???
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2016, 15:48
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Yep, the Kinugawa springs are rated above their actual holding pressure for our cars. Whatever spring you think you need, get the next one up.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old November 3rd, 2016, 15:54
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Yep, the Kinugawa springs are rated above their actual holding pressure for our cars. Whatever spring you think you need, get the next one up.
Good info which I wish I had earlier. Not trying for high boost levels but thought my 1 bar spring was about right. Think Kinugawa state the actuator will start to open at 1/2 spring rating and be fully open at rated pressure. yet to try mine as turbo just getting installed. Will report after weekend once I test drive & tune.

jim
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old September 28th, 2018, 00:24
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I have this issue and wonder what happened with the red spring
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2019, 20:32
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Red spring didn't resolve my creep issues. Just noticed Mamba have an upgrade available for the actuator, which I'm thinking of giving a crack. https://www.shop.mambatek.com/search...pKVFi5J8_okJ5k

Apparently these spring are linear in compression. (I thought the old ones were linear, but apparently not)
It also supports a longer travel. Something I noticed when I removed the factory actuator is how much less travel was available for the wastegate.

Hopefully this fixes the creep issues, and I can get stable boost. I've already ported the wastegates, but never tried it with the OEM actuator which had better travel. Its easier for me to upgrade the existing actuator than it will be to swap it over to the OEM one.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2019, 21:28 Thread Starter
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wow blast from the past. about a week after my last post the 20b exploded. maybe I had already lost a fin or 2 when i was fighting the lower boost issue...
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old July 15th, 2019, 21:33 Thread Starter
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was a good excuse to go to gt3071..
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old July 16th, 2019, 20:55
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You might also try more preload on the rod vs just upping the spring rate. Generally a lower spring rate and more preload is the way to go for an IWG and better control with a boost controller assuming you can still hold your desired boost up top.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old July 16th, 2019, 23:24
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I've had nothing but issues with my Kinugawa TD05SL2-18g internal waste gate. Believe its due to the poor internal porting of the gate as I cannot hold boost and it likes to spike and then EBC pulls it back to spring pressure. Constant flip flop of building boost, overshooting and then back to building pressure again.

Mine has a very strange hot side configurations and I'm considering two solutions;

1/ Remove the plug by IWG and route screamer pipe into DP.
2/ Have a 38mm hole drilled into turbine casting to supply external gate.

BTW a local engine builder/programmer technician recommended option 2 as they have done this mod on other turbos to gain control. I'm not that keen TBH.
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