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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 18:19
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Originally Posted by WaltClassic
Yet when these modern engines decide to go realllllly fast they eliminate all that nonsense and go back to basics lol. You have any idea how many Evo 9 guys go to evo 8 head set ups just becasue of that very point. My car is more than efficient and with the new change in sensors its only going to get better.
Most of those guys that remove that stuff don't care about having the widest possible powerband or the most well rounded setup. They generally want peak power, which you don't need that stuff to make.

VVT WILL extend the powerband, this is fact. Be it on a 100hp engine or a 1000hp engine. In fact it would if anything have a larger effect on the higher powered engine.
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 18:46
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Originally Posted by WaltClassic
Yet when these modern engines decide to go realllllly fast they eliminate all that nonsense and go back to basics lol. You have any idea how many Evo 9 guys go to evo 8 head set ups just becasue of that very point. My car is more than efficient and with the new change in sensors its only going to get better.


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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 18:58 Thread Starter
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Alsmost everyone of my boys that are going fast and have Bseries still they eliminate vtec period. No solenoid, vtec killer cams, etc
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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 19:13
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Originally Posted by WaltClassic
Alsmost everyone of my boys that are going fast and have Bseries still they eliminate vtec period. No solenoid, vtec killer cams, etc
Like I said, if you want peak power, it works fine but you will ALWAYS get a wider powerband and an overall more balanced car with VVT working. Peak numbers won't change though.
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 21:19
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Originally Posted by Texas_Ace
Like I said, if you want peak power, it works fine but you will ALWAYS get a wider powerband and an overall more balanced car with VVT working. Peak numbers won't change though.
It doesn't just work fine otherwise they would keep it don't you think?
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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old October 21st, 2013, 21:49
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It doesn't just work fine otherwise they would keep it don't you think?
who needs a wider powerband when you're racing?

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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 03:11
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Congrats B!!! And to think this aint even the killer motor in there....smfh. Cant wait to see some 1/4 mile runs.

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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 05:56
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Originally Posted by JNRmr2
It doesn't just work fine otherwise they would keep it don't you think?
It does work or EVERY car manufacture would not spend millions developing, perfecting and implementing it don't you think?

Like I said, doesn't effect peak power at all but has a major effect on overall powerband.

Like josh said, when racing in a straight line in particular a wide powerband is secondary.
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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 07:02
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Eh, best 4 banger Toyota made but not even in the same ballpark as modern engines when it comes to efficiency, modability, cost effectiveness, overall performance ect.

The lack of VVT alone puts it at a drastic disadvantage vs modern engines from the start.

I hear you tex.. But at the end of the day.. I think I speak for many when I say.. I don?t really care about all that.. I am all in for a good run.. Cause in the streets of NY nobody really cares about what you have under the hood.. You put money down, you run.. Someone wins the other goes home.. Done! Oh.. and although I love the race lab car and have been speaking K20 way before any of you (search my threads) I?m Toyota for life and will be on B's ream all day..
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 07:07
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I hear you tex.. But at the end of the day.. I think I speak for many when I say.. I don?t really care about all that.. I am all in for a good run.. Cause in the streets of NY nobody really cares about what you have under the hood.. You put money down, you run.. Someone wins the other goes home.. Done! Oh.. and although I love the race lab car and have been speaking K20 way before any of you (search my threads) I?m Toyota for life and will be on B's ream all day..
Ya'll know I am a full supporter of Walts build. I think he will do some very impressive things with the car.

I am also a realist that is not blinded by brand "loyalty" though and will freely admit that while the 3s is good for what it is, it is far outmatched by modern engines, as it should be.
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post #31 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 07:16
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:-) again I hear you and your right the K is the better engine.. but id still like to see the run.. and based on all i know about B.. he dont back down from ____!! and will prob talk ____ at the line and put on his 4 way flashers at the end of the race.. lololol.. that might just be a NY thing.. dont really see that much anywhere else.. lol

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N/A Guys tune/replace and modify the items that are allegedly good till 700+WHP?
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post #32 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 10:18 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JNRmr2
It doesn't just work fine otherwise they would keep it don't you think?
No it does work. Just that some motors its easier to eliminate than others. I would never remove vtec from the K series cars. They are basically designed around it. But also keep in mind you have tune about 6 different cam angle maps just to tune the car. Great motors all around though. Just that in most cases a simple cam set up and mid range to peak is all racers are concerned about. If this was a road car I was building i'd be looking to some how retrofit in adjustable cam angles. Its worth it, where its needed.
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post #33 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 10:27 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eazy2001x
:-) again I hear you and your right the K is the better engine.. but id still like to see the run.. and based on all i know about B.. he dont back down from ____!! and will prob talk ____ at the line and put on his 4 way flashers at the end of the race.. lololol.. that might just be a NY thing.. dont really see that much anywhere else.. lol
Haha you know the deal already
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post #34 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 11:56
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Originally Posted by Texas_Ace
It does work or EVERY car manufacture would not spend millions developing, perfecting and implementing it don't you think?

Like I said, doesn't effect peak power at all but has a major effect on overall powerband.

Like josh said, when racing in a straight line in particular a wide powerband is secondary.
You can?t compare a car that is meant to be street driven (car manufactures) to one that is meant to go as fast as possible in the ? mile. The point is that if VVTI, VTEC etc worked better for cars that are build to go as fast as they can in the 1/4, they wouldn?t be eliminating them. Don't get me wrong, when I said work I meant to say for cars mean to go in a straight line

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post #35 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 13:05
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Originally Posted by JNRmr2
You can?t compare a car that is meant to be street driven (car manufactures) to one that is meant to go as fast as possible in the ? mile. The point is that if VVTI, VTEC etc worked better for cars that are build to go as fast as they can in the 1/4, they wouldn?t be eliminating them. Don't get me wrong, when I said work I meant to say for cars mean to go in a straight line
Yes you can, VTT is meant to extend the power band, it does this VERY well and works on any engine no matter the power level or what it is doing.

You simply don't need a wide powerband when racing in a straight line to win so they eliminate it because it makes things simpler.

See walts post above.

VVT works, this is simple fact.

Whats not so simple is tuning, dialing in and setting up VVT on a fully built motor making 5-10x it's stock power with totally different cams. Looking at many times the cost in tuning for most things, THATS why people eliminate it.
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post #36 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 13:27
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if you look at a lot of high HP K engines.. you will see that the maps for IVTEC/ETC are all set to 0. Its not that it cant be tuned.. But most of the time people cant afford to pay a tuner for their time. so its set to 0 (no adjustment) and then the car gets a full tune. if later on they wish they can go back to have it tuned.. but most dont cause the engine makes so much power that the driver feels that its not needed..

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post #37 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 14:33
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Heck really fast dragsters still run carbureted V8's. I guess that means carburetors are better then EFI because EFI is just what OEM's use to improve Street cars?

Just because "everyone else" is doing something does NOT mean it is right or even advisable way to do things.

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I am still alive, just busy with life. Still got the MR2 sitting the in driveway. Someday it will be back on the road. When that will be only God knows. It will be really fast when it is though.
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post #38 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 18:33
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Originally Posted by Texas_Ace
Yes you can, VTT is meant to extend the power band, it does this VERY well and works on any engine no matter the power level or what it is doing.

You simply don't need a wide powerband when racing in a straight line to win so they eliminate it because it makes things simpler.

See walts post above.

VVT works, this is simple fact.

Whats not so simple is tuning, dialing in and setting up VVT on a fully built motor making 5-10x it's stock power with totally different cams. Looking at many times the cost in tuning for most things, THATS why people eliminate it.
I don't think THAT'S why they eliminate it. They eliminate it because many have spend a TON of time and money tuning it, and at the end of the day there was NO difference in the 1/4. If it did all those racers (professional or not) out there would be going the extra mile to have the advantage against their competitors.
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post #39 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 18:35
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Heck really fast dragsters still run carbureted V8's. I guess that means carburetors are better then EFI because EFI is just what OEM's use to improve Street cars?

Just because "everyone else" is doing something does NOT mean it is right or even advisable way to do things.
Again you are comparing "street car" vs race car like I said for a street car it works great, for a drag car it makes no difference.
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post #40 of 52 (permalink) Old October 22nd, 2013, 20:32
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I don't think THAT'S why they eliminate it. They eliminate it because many have spend a TON of time and money tuning it, and at the end of the day there was NO difference in the 1/4. If it did all those racers (professional or not) out there would be going the extra mile to have the advantage against their competitors.
Um, thats exactly what I said?
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