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post #61 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 21:20
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Here is what i was talking about i made a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRzl6HQoCyQ

That is with the plate fully pushed down and the nut fully tightened.

The nuts for camber plates have a extra recess on them to protect the threads and provide proper alignment/spacing in the middle i assume.

With this nut flipped over like this and just another nut on top. I dont see why this wouldnt be a good solution?
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post #62 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 07:49 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W
Yep, thats very similar to what I have designed, except that mine also extends up inside the bearing, since the shock shaft is quite a bit smaller than the 3/4" bearing I plan on using.
You are correct Alex, the spacer would "fill in" the space between the threaded part and the bearing bore...good catch! I am going to try to make something this weekend if I find the time. I have been working on my new tool post for the lathe and it should be done this weekend, hopefully.

PS: I have been having shock issues on the alltrac (premature wear) and now I know why...the old setup was most likely introducing too much stress on the shock shaft under full load (The spring perch was binding against the bearing housing not allowing enough free motion)....would this be correct assumption?
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post #63 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 08:36 Thread Starter
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Here is a new updated version of the graphic:


*red marks are the "full load" points
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post #64 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 08:54 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walka
Here is what i was talking about i made a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRzl6HQoCyQ

That is with the plate fully pushed down and the nut fully tightened.

The nuts for camber plates have a extra recess on them to protect the threads and provide proper alignment/spacing in the middle i assume.

With this nut flipped over like this and just another nut on top. I dont see why this wouldnt be a good solution?
Tim, you are not accounting for the top spring perch sliding over the entire shaft and past the inverted nut which is the problem. FYI, there is no reason to flip the nut, there is no advantage to it. The shock shaft already has a flat to sit against the bearing (not the housing, just the bearing ball) With your setup you would still be re-creating my old setup where the spring perch would sit against the bearing housing instead of the bearing ball itself. Make sense? I made an updated graphic above, look at it and picture the spring perch added. We need that green spacer/adapter to make sure the load from both shock shaft and spring perch together is transfered equally to ONLY the bearing ball and nothing else. The spacer will also need to have bevelled edges for proper swivel action without binding at any angle required to move the strut within the susp. travel motion. (steering needs to be accounted) in this...caster change) Let me know if this makes better sense.
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post #65 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 09:05
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I understand what your creating. I thought about the spring perch and forgot to add that. Wouldn't adding a nice washer under the bolt solve that problem though?
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post #66 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 09:13 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walka
I understand what your creating. I thought about the spring perch and forgot to add that. Wouldn't adding a nice washer under the bolt solve that problem though?
Is the nut wider than the shock shaft? If so you could add a washer there but I think what Alex and I are trying to do is a thin washer that won't affect the stroke much at all, just provide a good seat for the spring perch. You nut is unnecessarily thick IMHO.
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post #67 of 276 (permalink) Old March 4th, 2011, 09:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
PS: I have been having shock issues on the alltrac (premature wear) and now I know why...the old setup was most likely introducing too much stress on the shock shaft under full load (The spring perch was binding against the bearing housing not allowing enough free motion)....would this be correct assumption?
Very likely I would say. If you havn't already you should take a look at some of the Far North Racing tech guides and such. He has a pretty good writeup on this very subject in fact. http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html
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post #68 of 276 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2011, 08:35 Thread Starter
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Some more progress over the weekend...

Almost finished block:


New rod bearings installed, all clearances checked...time to finish the head, install the trans and put everything in the car.




Alex, thanks for the link, I have been following Dennis' write-ups for a while now, he really does stress the "free movement" of the coilovers and making sure the spring stays square under compression... that was the reasoning behind me rounding off the top of the spring perch but that was obviously not enough to keep from it binding. I started on the new bushings but need to order a 14mm drill bit so it's nice and tight on the shock without any movement. Alex, again, thanks for all your input!

Also, finally installed the new tool post, still not 100% done and it works a LOT better than the old rocker design. Still need to machine a bigger bottom support for it but even with a smaller base it works a LOT better than the old rocker design from 1800's...heh
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post #69 of 276 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2011, 19:14
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That motor looks real nice. Can't wait to see what you can do with the gland nuts.

I got my first set of springs in the mail so i mocked everything up.


Here is a few close ups of the degree the camber plate can lean.



One more shot to show the maximum amount of angle the assembly can be with the camber plate horizontal


I think i may shave the nut underneath down a bit to make sure the angle is smooth for the camber plate.

What do you think of my design?
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post #70 of 276 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2011, 19:28
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Looks pretty good to me.

You will probably be fine angle wise, the upper strut mounting points in the chassis are leaned in about 8* on their own, so the angle between the strut and the plate shouldn't get TOO extreme.


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Specializing in suspension and handling for the MKII MR2

Custom Koni coilovers and coilover housings, suspension geometry correction kits, camber/caster plates, big brake kits, and more

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A retro-active build thread for my track / autocross car
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post #71 of 276 (permalink) Old March 7th, 2011, 19:37
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The bolts usually come with the camber plates and the washers were $0.19 each. A very cost-effective spacer.
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post #72 of 276 (permalink) Old March 8th, 2011, 08:10 Thread Starter
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Looking good Tim! I think you'll be fine with those angles also though you can shave a little bit off the edge of the nut for peace of mind. What spring rates did you guys end up getting? They are 8" length, correct?

Also, didn't get a chance to work outside last night, I'll be in the garage tonight working on the lathe, will see if I can get the gland nuts machined. Still can't believe that koni does not have them in stock and even if they did the cost is $25 per one nut....that's nuts, literally! heh

Last edited by gtfour77; March 8th, 2011 at 08:13.
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post #73 of 276 (permalink) Old March 8th, 2011, 08:13
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Yea that is 8" in length. I am hoping to get a good collection of ranges in pairs to try out. Right now my collection amounts to 1000# springs and 800# springs. In the picture is the 1k# spring.
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post #74 of 276 (permalink) Old March 8th, 2011, 08:23 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walka
Yea that is 8" in length. I am hoping to get a good collection of ranges in pairs to try out. Right now my collection amounts to 1000# springs and 800# springs. In the picture is the 1k# spring.
Wow, that's pretty high...do you guys have ABS? The higher rates will affect braking (forward weight transfer) some (as i am sure you already know), jsut FYI... But at least you have plenty to experiment with which is great. We might be doing some spring swapping later...heh Here is the list of mine for now:

7" 450's
8" 700's
7" 550's
getting ready to get some 700" and 750's...

Edit: I know you guys are trying hard to keep the geometry stable with the stiffer springs so they will work great for that.

Last edited by gtfour77; March 8th, 2011 at 08:33.
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post #75 of 276 (permalink) Old March 8th, 2011, 08:48
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yea but even these rates are the high range, but $100 for the 4 springs from a fellow scca member it will be a good test, mainly to understand the feeling of an extreme setup.
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post #76 of 276 (permalink) Old March 8th, 2011, 09:13 Thread Starter
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yea but even these rates are the high range, but $100 for the 4 springs from a fellow scca member it will be a good test, mainly to understand the feeling of an extreme setup.
That's a good deal!
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post #77 of 276 (permalink) Old March 10th, 2011, 21:04
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professor farnsworth: great news everyone

I recently bought 88 rx7 camber plates to see if i can use them on the mr2. Well i just got them in.



If you take notice the top bolt comes in 2 pieces as opposed to my other rear camber plates that was a 1 piece bolt. It is so that the piece underneath catches the bearing and puts it on the strut.
Well that works out great because you just add those washers i bought for $0.19 and voila




So now i need to redrill the studs at the top. The rx7 has all the studs 3" away from the center and the mr2 is 2.5" away from the center so there is enough space at the top for the redrilling.

I will post when i get them to fit in the car properly. The bearing itself is a little tough so i hope it frees up a little. It has the tool receiver at the bottom so i am thinking they are rebuild able too.

In case you were wondering, they are $99 for the pair on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT
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post #78 of 276 (permalink) Old March 11th, 2011, 07:59 Thread Starter
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Looking great Tim, the bearing being a little tight is good, it'll loosen up, don't worry. Can you take a pic of the bottom of the bearing? I am curious myself to see if it in fact is rebuildable. Also, you can offset it to where it goes as far "in" as possible and you can also move it backwards for extra caster. (if you have room) Great find!
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post #79 of 276 (permalink) Old March 18th, 2011, 09:39 Thread Starter
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More progress last night, finally had a chance to finish up the front control arms though the brackets are not boxed in yet but I think they'll be plenty strong for testing this Sunday. I am putting the entire front setup on my daily driver to test the strength and "feel". I am planning on putting a camera on the suspension to see what's going on down there under autocross conditions. This will be on my stock engine/stock boost and open diff equipped car so i am not expecting anything major performance-wise but it should give me a decent idea of the function. Anyway, here are couple of shots of the new tie rod end adapter (5/8-18 on one end and 14mmx1.5 on the other). Test results coming after the weekend...


These came out very nice, the threads are nice , tight and smooth, should handle the stress easily. Metal lathe make sthis sooo easy...

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post #80 of 276 (permalink) Old March 21st, 2011, 08:20
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Ok I finally got all the parts together to assemble my car again.




I installed them on the car and am having a bit of an issue though. Since the spring now sits behind the wheel instead of over the wheel the clearances are a lot tighter. Enough so that i cant even get stock wheels to fit on the car anymore. What do people do in this situation? If you go with a coilover do you have to go with a lower offset rim? I am thinking that spacers are my only option to run the rims/tires i have now. Thoughts?

Last edited by walka; April 5th, 2011 at 08:24.
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