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post #41 of 276 (permalink) Old March 2nd, 2011, 20:17
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Ok im trying to think in my head here.



I got my new strut tops and i noticed that the top fits the threaded part through but it doesnt fit the rest of the shock through the top. I am under the impression i SHOULD drill out the strut top so that it has a hole big enough to fit the entire shock through. But with it assembled like that and the way i think of the suspension being at the static height. Why would i drill through this top to fit it through? What am i preventing?

ps yes i know i need to paint the shock, classes are taking priority i got out early tonight so i am messing around lol

Last edited by walka; March 2nd, 2011 at 21:00.
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post #42 of 276 (permalink) Old March 2nd, 2011, 23:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walka
Ok im trying to think in my head here.



I got my new strut tops and i noticed that the top fits the threaded part through but it doesnt fit the rest of the shock through the top. I am under the impression i SHOULD drill out the strut top so that it has a hole big enough to fit the entire shock through. But with it assembled like that and the way i think of the suspension being at the static height. Why would i drill through this top to fit it through? What am i preventing?

ps yes i know i need to paint the shock, classes are taking priority i got out early tonight so i am messing around lol
I think it depends on the rest of your setup. I am planning on machining mine out (when I get around to building my coil-overs... soon). But that's because I need more space above the spring top for my camber plate, and also because I want access to the wrench flats on the koni strut while the whole strut is assembled so I can properly torque the top nut. If it fits without drilling it out then there probably isn't any reason to drill it.
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post #43 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 07:42 Thread Starter
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Tim, I machined mine just a hair bigger than the shock shaft, you don't want to have the strut mount bearing sitting against the aluminum collar. Bottom of the bearing needs to seat against the shock shaft (the flat right after the main shaft before going to the threaded part) Just FYI.

PS: Did you get new collars? I know your original ones had the center bore much, much bigger than the shock shaft diameter...
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post #44 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 07:46 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W
I want access to the wrench flats on the koni strut while the whole strut is assembled so I can properly torque the top nut.
This is a good point Alex, are you only using one nut at the top? I used two on the alltrac, I simply tightened them against each other without having access to the shock flats, just FYI in case you won't have access to it...
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post #45 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 08:37
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Oh thats a good idea! Ok i was just curious as to the logic behind it. Its easy enough to use a drill press to open it up a little. Adding that nut underneath the plate is going to make me need to drill out that spring perch.

Yea i got a new top hat because remember how the old ones sat against the plate? Though Levi put it together with the stock plates and they worked well with them.
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post #46 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 09:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
Tim, I machined mine just a hair bigger than the shock shaft, you don't want to have the strut mount bearing sitting against the aluminum collar. Bottom of the bearing needs to seat against the shock shaft (the flat right after the main shaft before going to the threaded part) Just FYI.
Why do you say that? Afterall, the highest loads (spring loads) are coming from the aluminum spring top, not from the shock shaft itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
This is a good point Alex, are you only using one nut at the top? I used two on the alltrac, I simply tightened them against each other without having access to the shock flats, just FYI in case you won't have access to it...
I was only planning on using one. I don't think that two would help me much. For one thing, the nuts will be pretty well burried down inside my top mounts, so I wouldn't be able to get a wrench on the lower one to tighten them against each other.
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post #47 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 09:37 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W
Why do you say that? Afterall, the highest loads (spring loads) are coming from the aluminum spring top, not from the shock shaft itself.
Correct, but the top spring collar does not have a 14mm hole to fit snuggly against the shock shaft(threaded part)...it's closer to the outer most diameter of the shock shaft and it would never sit square against the flat part. Also, if you are putting the alum. collar between the strut mount and the spring collar you are decreasing the stroke of the shock. (this is minimal but still pushing it down a bit) Does this sound correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W
I was only planning on using one. I don't think that two would help me much. For one thing, the nuts will be pretty well burried down inside my top mounts, so I wouldn't be able to get a wrench on the lower one to tighten them against each other.
Right, though you might have to install the strut and the strut mount in the car as an assembly either way depending on how tight you're going to make it. Mine is going to be very tight as I am tilting the strut top way in.

Last edited by gtfour77; March 3rd, 2011 at 10:12.
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post #48 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 10:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
Correct, but the top spring collar does not have a 14mm hole to fit snuggly against the shock shaft...it's closer to the outer most diameter of the shock shaft and it would never sit square against the flat part. Also, if you are putting the alum. collar between the strut mount and the spring collar you are decreasing the stroke of the shock. (this is minimal but still pushing it down a bit) Does this sound correct?


Right, though you might have to install the strut and the strut mount in the car as an assembly either way depending on how tight you're going to make it. Mine is going to be very tight as I am tilting the strut top way in.
Yeah, they will definetly be going into the car in one piece, and the strut tops are going inboard as far as I can manage as well.

On the spring top question, I plan on making a special bushing / spacer that will put the loads from both the shock and the spring into the bearing.
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post #49 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 10:42 Thread Starter
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On the spring top question, I plan on making a special bushing / spacer that will put the loads from both the shock and the spring into the bearing.
Can you elaborate on this Alex? Are you thinking of a spacer that will go between the spring top/shock and the bearing ball edge(bottom) so it only touches the ball and not any other part of the strut mount? If so tha would be a great idea.
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post #50 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 10:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
Are you thinking of a spacer that will go between the spring top/shock and the bearing ball edge(bottom) so it only touches the ball and not any other part of the strut mount?
This is the correct method of mounting the top spring perch. Because the strut articulates, its vertical load should be borne directly on the spherical bearing that locates the strut rod.

-Steve
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post #51 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 11:12 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XHead
This is the correct method of mounting the top spring perch. Because the strut articulates, its vertical load should be borne directly on the spherical bearing that locates the strut rod.

-Steve
I used to round off the top of the spring perch so it would have some sort of "freedom" of movement but I don't think it was enough to allow for proper motion. I think Alex is up to something. Jus brainstorming here.....this spacer will have to be steel since there is not much room under the bearing. Guessing a 1/16" wall or maybe a little thicker at the top...this will have to take the entire load of the susp.... It will also have to be machined perfectly so that the spring perch will slide onto it.. I'll try to do a drawing later but I am assuming Alex might already have this figured out though.
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post #52 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 11:18
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Any properly design coil-over kit is designed so that that suspension load is fed into the spherical bearing.

My coil-overs have always been done this way. When I made new camber plates, I made my own spacer to set the correct gap between the upper perch and the under side of the camber plate.

-Steve
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post #53 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 11:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
Can you elaborate on this Alex? Are you thinking of a spacer that will go between the spring top/shock and the bearing ball edge(bottom) so it only touches the ball and not any other part of the strut mount? If so tha would be a great idea.
Essentially what I am designing is a flanged bushing that will go inside the bearing to adapt it to the proper size to fit the koni strut while providing a bit of a spacer / larger surface area to transfer load from the spring perch to the inner ball of the spherical bearing. Stainless steel is the plan. Yes, I plan to put 100% of both shock and spring loads through the bearing.
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post #54 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:02 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W
Essentially what I am designing is a flanged bushing that will go inside the bearing to adapt it to the proper size to fit the koni strut while providing a bit of a spacer / larger surface area to transfer load from the spring perch to the inner ball of the spherical bearing. Stainless steel is the plan. Yes, I plan to put 100% of both shock and spring loads through the bearing.

Awesome! I have been running my alltrac's susp on the bottom of the camber plate with just rounded off spring perch....your setup will be perfect! Keep us posted if you don't mind. Thinking about doing a batch for people?
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post #55 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:19
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Thinking about doing a batch for people?
Definetly
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post #56 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 12:56
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Is that essentially the top bolt of the camber plate upside down with a new nut on top?
The nut is the one on the left that holds the koni in place and acts as a top nut.
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post #57 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 14:27 Thread Starter
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Here is something that I was thinking about:


The green spacer is the part we would need. I am envisioning it a little flatter, just enough to support the collar. We don't want to shorten the stroke with a thick spacer...does this look right Alex? (Steve?)


Here is what I ran until now...hey, it worked...heh
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post #58 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 17:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfour77
Here is something that I was thinking about:


The green spacer is the part we would need. I am envisioning it a little flatter, just enough to support the collar. We don't want to shorten the stroke with a thick spacer...does this look right Alex? (Steve?)


Here is what I ran until now...hey, it worked...heh
Yep, thats very similar to what I have designed, except that mine also extends up inside the bearing, since the shock shaft is quite a bit smaller than the 3/4" bearing I plan on using.
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post #59 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 19:50
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but how will you account for the top nut that goes in the bearing?
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post #60 of 276 (permalink) Old March 3rd, 2011, 20:37
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Quote:
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but how will you account for the top nut that goes in the bearing?
What do you mean? The nut will install just like it normally would, clamping the strut to the bearing.
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