STS2 MK1 suspension setup w/host XHead - Page 6 - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
 
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post #101 of 162 (permalink) Old July 22nd, 2008, 21:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verno-dub
With that said, i have the opportunity to get my hands on a brand new clutch type Cusco 1-way limited slip, is it a decent 1-way or should I be looking at another brand and/or 1.5 or 2 way lsd?
I can't tell you anything about the Cusco 1-way LSD as I have never even seen one. I can say that the one way should work OK. You certainly don't want a 2-way. They kill turn-in and have a very harsh transition from under to over steer.

I would look for a TRD clutch type. Its a 1.5 way and works quite nicely. I really like mine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by verno-dub

As for the power, that is something I wanted to talk to you about. I looked over your engine build thread but there are some key things left out of the build thread, so I will have to email you directly on that subject off the forums. Whats the email again, Steve?
HA! You noticed that huh... Yeah, I really don't want to publish detailed info but there is a lot of info out there on these engines. I will be glad to help. My email is 127dp (at) bellsouth.net

-Steve
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post #102 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 01:16
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verno-dub could you recap what exactly you did to the car ?

what was your standings before the mod's
what was your standings after the mod's

weight before and after the mod's

tire press before and after your runs

how about tire temps

reason I am asking I thought there where limited springs and shocks for the MKI

I think we are also missing the fact that Steve is a excellent driver

I remember the DSP X 19' s' back in the 90's
I ran a DSP Opel GT and there was no way in hell I would even try to go up against Steve's x19


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post #103 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 02:57
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Originally Posted by davegt27
verno-dub could you recap what exactly you did to the car ?
This is a whole new car that I picked up for street duty while I work on my DP car. The car is a completely stock a/t hardtop that was converted to 5spd, full interior sans a/c. The only engine mod on this particular car is a rebuilt head, K&N filter, and custom exhaust. The suspension mods are as follows, complete Poly bushings, Koni adjustable yellow inserts, GC coilover sleeves, new front & rear inner/outer tierods and new bushings, and front T3 camber plates. Basically, all over the counter parts so to speak. Oh, yeah, new brakes front and rear.

NO SWAYBARS!

I wanted to start with a fresh virgin MKI so I could document my findings and tuning in CSP, and hopefully use this data on my DP car with the guidance of Steveo. But im realizing, two races in, CSP and DP are two different animals entirely, so his brain will be thoroughly picked in a couple seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
what was your standings before the mod's
what was your standings after the mod's
I finished top 10 this last race as far as standings go, but this car and my stripped DP car are not even in the same league. I think FTD was a 34.01 and I did a 35.40 or something. I have to review the results again but im fairly sure im close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
weight before and after the mod's
I haven't weighted it yet but im sure its at the same weight as MicaCeli's car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
tire press before and after your runs
I started them at 26 front and 24 rear. I played around with tire pressures in fun runs, but the car seems to respond well or at least I like it at these pressures. So im keeping them for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
how about tire temps
It was a long drive back to the staging area, so the readings were not going to be accurate, so i didnt check them yet. I will the next race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
reason I am asking I thought there where limited springs and shocks for the MKI
Again all over the counter parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
I think we are also missing the fact that Steve is a excellent driver
I dont disagree with you there. This is why I listened to him and why im now a member of the 'black sheep" racing crew..
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post #104 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 09:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
verno-dub could you recap what exactly you did to the car ?
Dave, I was working with verno-dub offline. However, if you read the numbered installments in this thread, you will have a great deal of insight as to the setup on the car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
how about tire temps
I have found that my tire temps are lower using this setup theory than with a more traditional setup with swaybars. At the same time, the grip is improved. The result being that the car is easier on tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
reason I am asking I thought there where limited springs and shocks for the MKI
Konis are adequate for this application. Springs are coil overs so there is no issue with rate or length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
I think we are also missing the fact that Steve is a excellent driver
Dave, I appreciate your endorsement. I am humbled. I should note that I wasn't driving verno-dub's car. Nor MicaCeli's either. My setup help made them faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davegt27
I remember the DSP X 19' s' back in the 90's
I ran a DSP Opel GT and there was no way in hell I would even try to go up against Steve's x19
I loved that car. It was a truely great racecar. My theories on the barless setup were developed, tested, refined and proven on that car.

That car won more than 30 National Tours, 4 National Championships and every single event it entered from the season opener of 1998 to Nationals of 2001 where I finished 2nd to Mark Daddio on that fatefull day of 9/11/01 when the event was stopped after day 1 of DSP (we ran 1st heat Tues). It then won every event entered though Nationals '03 where it finished 5th and was retired. So, from the beginning of the '98 season to Nationals of '03 the car won every event entered except the '01 Nationals where it finished 2nd. That is one of the best records in the history of the sport. Note that during that period of time DSP was one of the largest classes with more than 40 cars turning out at Nationals each year.

It was the ground work done on that car that is now being successfully applied to my DP Mk1 and verno-dub and micaceli's Mk1s.

I should also note that there are a few clubracers successfully running with my barless setups.

Just for fun, here is my DSP X1/9 from the '03 Nationals:






-Steve

Last edited by XHead; July 24th, 2008 at 09:15.
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post #105 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 09:39 Thread Starter
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God that X1/9 is a purty car.
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post #106 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 12:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MicaCeli
God that X1/9 is a purty car.
Thanks

An excuse to post another pic:



-Steve
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post #107 of 162 (permalink) Old July 24th, 2008, 21:06
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very cool guys thanks for the recap



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post #108 of 162 (permalink) Old July 25th, 2008, 13:21
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holy smokes great info. just bought an MR2 a month ago and plan to build mine into a track car. this will help loads.
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post #109 of 162 (permalink) Old July 25th, 2008, 15:19
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yes great info....i drive an es 91 mr2 and trust me its fun and torque filled around the cones... i love it but i often leave the autox course knowing my car could be so much better ..mostly longing for stiff spring rates....i did drive a decently set up mk1 on springs , konis, st bars, etc...handled great

i have always wanted stiff springs but i thought stiffer in the back because of more weight would work well....but now that you tell me stiff in the front and slightly softer in the back i want this set up...sounds like the stiff front leverages the car with the softer back around corners...

i bet this would concept would work just as well or better with the slightly longer wheel base of the mk2...

if i mod my 91 and move away from es which class would i be in? and can the car be competitive in something other then es?

any good street tire classes for me

also, what are the classings for mk1...is dp the class which allows supercharger swaps


we need more mr2 autoxers!!!!

hope this isnt thread jacking too much...lol

amazing x1/9 btw ... i wonder where that car is today
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post #110 of 162 (permalink) Old July 25th, 2008, 16:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by race4eva
if i mod my 91 and move away from es which class would i be in? and can the car be competitive in something other then es?

any good street tire classes for me
MKII NA - ES, CSP, DP (no ST* class yet. )

*edit* forgot to add SM2 if you really try to go overboard.
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post #111 of 162 (permalink) Old July 25th, 2008, 16:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali3baba
MKII NA - ES, CSP, DP (no ST* class yet. )

*edit* forgot to add SM2 if you really try to go overboard.

the st class would be the good one especially for a daily driver/ autox car......we should all write in to the scca

in my region randy noll has his 93 or whatever hardtop with a current 350 whp...insane sm car

Last edited by race4eva; July 25th, 2008 at 16:24.
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post #112 of 162 (permalink) Old July 25th, 2008, 16:23
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Originally Posted by race4eva
i bet this would concept would work just as well or better with the slightly longer wheel base of the mk2...
It would work just fine. I have used it on a number of cars including a Ferrari F360.

Quote:
Originally Posted by race4eva
if i mod my 91 and move away from es which class would i be in? and can the car be competitive in something other then es?
Don't have my book with me but I think the Mk2 NA goes to CSP, then SM2, FP, XP and E Mod. I think CSP would be tough but it should probably be moved to DSP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by race4eva
any good street tire classes for me
Good street tire class? Isn't that mutually exclusive

I don't think the Mk2 can run in STS2. The displacement limit is 1.9 liters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by race4eva
also, what are the classings for mk1...is dp the class which allows supercharger swaps
No superchargers in DP. The Supercharged car runs in FP and XP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by race4eva
amazing x1/9 btw ... i wonder where that car is today
Well, until 6 months ago it was in my garage. Last winter I sold it to my former co-driver Dennis Cipriany. Its now living at his home near Harrisburg, PA.

-Steve
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post #113 of 162 (permalink) Old July 27th, 2008, 05:23
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Hey steve didn't they revise the ruling on the SC MK1 to state that it was going to be treated as a option through the whole MK1 line? ('85-'89) thus moving the '87-'89 sc from CS to ES and following the standard ES CSP SM2 and so on?
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post #114 of 162 (permalink) Old July 27th, 2008, 19:50
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They are working on a street tire class to cover two seaters that are currently not ST legal. The problem is, it is going to be primarily for the S2K so the MKII NA is unlikely to be competitive there. The MKII turbo on the other hand could be a lot of fun.

Not to sidetrack this discussion. Short version: send feedback to [email protected] so that they know there is interest.
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post #115 of 162 (permalink) Old July 29th, 2008, 11:29
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With sticky race tires, aren't the front rates for a csp mk1 going to to be up above 600#? Koni yellows can still handle this?

Thanks,
Ryan
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post #116 of 162 (permalink) Old July 29th, 2008, 12:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockett
With sticky race tires, aren't the front rates for a csp mk1 going to to be up above 600#?
Probably. I haven't done the math but you can assume that the CSP car will need stiffer springs than the STS car.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockett
Koni yellows can still handle this?
I ran rates above 600 lbs on the front of my X1/9 and it had orange Konis. I later had them revalved. The stock Konis are going to be way at the upper end of their practical range. They will work but revalving would be better.

-Steve
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post #117 of 162 (permalink) Old July 29th, 2008, 19:45
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Originally Posted by Tairoru
Hey steve didn't they revise the ruling on the SC MK1 to state that it was going to be treated as a option through the whole MK1 line? ('85-'89) thus moving the '87-'89 sc from CS to ES and following the standard ES CSP SM2 and so on?
I'm not Steve... Classing is independant from one catagory to the next. Street prepared put all Mk1's on the same line so in CSP you can have SC power with early lightweight chassis.

Stock has MK1's in CS/ES
MK2's in BS/ES
MK3's in CS

Eric Clements
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post #118 of 162 (permalink) Old July 29th, 2008, 20:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tairoru
Hey steve didn't they revise the ruling on the SC MK1 to state that it was going to be treated as a option through the whole MK1 line? ('85-'89) thus moving the '87-'89 sc from CS to ES and following the standard ES CSP SM2 and so on?
Somehow I missed this. Eric is correct. The Mk1 will be combined onto a single line in CSP. That will permit update/backdate between the SC and NA versions. This reclassing in CSP has no effect on Stock, STS or Prepared classing.

-Steve
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post #119 of 162 (permalink) Old July 31st, 2008, 08:47
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I've been following this thread closely. I'm in the process of developing a spyder for CSP. Right now the car needs to maintain enough street comfort so that my wife doesn't flinch at the idea of taking a long trip in it. Eventually it will probably evolve into an all race prepped car, but not yet. That said, i want to push those limits as hard as possible. The car is good enough for an occasional fast pax right now.

Here is my problem: My spyder handles differently depending on course speed, pavement conditions, and the weather. When it is "on", holy crap, it is on! when it is off, I am frustrated as hell....

I'm thinking (since I'm not able to experiment with spring rates high enough to let me get away from anti-roll bars entirely yet) that a good compromise might be to make the roll stiffness bias front to rear the same for the springs and bars. Does that make sense? Other ways of curing my problem?
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post #120 of 162 (permalink) Old July 31st, 2008, 08:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocwandrer
Here is my problem: My spyder handles differently depending on course speed, pavement conditions, and the weather. When it is "on", holy crap, it is on! when it is off, I am frustrated as hell....

I'm thinking (since I'm not able to experiment with spring rates high enough to let me get away from anti-roll bars entirely yet) that a good compromise might be to make the roll stiffness bias front to rear the same for the springs and bars. Does that make sense? Other ways of curing my problem?
You can use sway bars, shocks and tire pressures to "fine-tune" the car's handling for your preferences. Provided the former two are adjustable.

It has been awhile since I drove the same car for an entire season. In my experiences, I've felt the same in a stock class miata at the SAME site. I wonder what part of that is your mental preparation and driving?
(Just a random musing, not a commentary on driver...)

Last edited by mtbmr2; July 31st, 2008 at 09:01.
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