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STS2 MK1 suspension setup w/host XHead Part:2.0

55K views 388 replies 39 participants last post by  XHead 
#1 ·
#27 · (Edited)
kevlar corolla said:
Yeah it sucks that essentially all engine swaps go to mod up here,but what else are they to do when you use an engine that was never offered in north america-they gotta draw a line somewhere.
To be competive your best bet would be to go back to the 16v(gze would be best choice for autox obviously)and your car with its mods would easily fit in SP.
I run my corolla in D-mod but its the class I built the car for instead of ending up in due to a poor engine choice.
I know. I've seen your little orange monster, and we've talked about setup a couple of times.

It's one of the reasons why I really like running up in Barrie.
It's a fun place to test and tune, due to them tossing CASC-OR out the window.

***Correction***
I see they changed their classing rules for this year, and now they too shun the 20v motor. Back to being an underprepared mod I go....

Still, it's a nice venue, and TLMC runs things well.
 
#28 ·
Pyrgnome said:
I know. I've seen your little orange monster, and we've talked about setup a couple of times.

It's one of the reasons why I really like running up in Barrie.
It's a fun place to test and tune, due to them tossing CASC-OR out the window.
We've talked before eh?,you'll have to remind what car you drive(I truly suck with names-faces are ok but..).
I'll be in Barrie on sunday with mine,you able to make it?.(weather is supposed to be perfect for a change).I didn't get ftd(was 2nd overall) 2 weeks ago at the regional but it was the cars debut for the season with the new out in left field engine combo I came up with-see the 1st gen supercharged/turbo'd section for pics.
All in all for the 1st time out wasn't so bad. ;)
 
#29 ·
I have prior comitments this weekend, but fully intend to be there for their late September event. (28th)

I drive the slightly ratty looking white 88, with a black roof.
It's not pretty but between what I have done to it, and a lot of enthusiam on the track, it was more then enough to win me a Krylon Award from Bill at K2008
:thumbup
 
#31 ·
Pyrgnome said:
I have prior comitments this weekend, but fully intend to be there for their late September event. (28th)

I drive the slightly ratty looking white 88, with a black roof.
It's not pretty but between what I have done to it, and a lot of enthusiam on the track, it was more then enough to win me a Krylon Award from Bill at K2008
:thumbup
Too bad you can't make it,hopefully you'll make a later event.
 
#33 ·
Well the car is fast. It seems like I need a new clutch though...can't launch it anymore.

I ended up doing ok in the morning for my timed runs but I was consentrating on getting a line and looking ahead. In the afternoon NonComp runs I dropped 2 seconds of my other time :)

I think my tire pressures were too low but I got too lazy and stopped caring and just drove the car. The car sticks like a bat out of hell....but has fun oversteer when you cut a corner too close and lift (I blame that on my driving)
 
#34 ·
Excellent report. Glad to hear the car is really coming on now.

With the higher spring rates it is likely that you will find the tires like higher pressures. This keeps the tire's spring rate purportional to the wheel rate. That keeps the tire from moving more than the shock/spring. And that makes the springs do the work and retain the proper balance.

-Steve
 
#35 · (Edited)
Yeah I've noticed that. I'm starting to get more worried about my driving vs the car....I now blame myself for stupid mistakes (like lifting after going full throttle on an off camber corner that I cut too tight on thus making me spin....duh it's going to spin, it's not the cars fault :) )

Finaly found that banging sound in the back of the car, it turned out to be the top gland nut that holds the shock in the strut tube backed out almost all the way. Only took me 3 months to find that :(

It's kinda nice. There are a few things that I need to do to the car most of it is maintanace related and weight savings. I don't have to mess with the suspension much anymore....tire pressures are my biggest worries.

So all I have to do is relearn how to drive fast again. I can find a very good line driving slower but start forgetting everything when I go faster, just something to work on.

Thanks Steve, you made me like going to Auto-X in the MR2 again. Before your help I was contemplating setting up another car for a different class but now I am confident that I can hopefully start nipping at Ian Bakers and the Snyders heels here in bit....it's a tall order but it's a goal, and you need goals in life :)
 
#36 ·
MicaCeli said:
Finaly found that banging sound in the back of the car, it turned out to be the top gland nut that holds the shock in the strut tube backed out almost all the way. Only took me 3 months to find that :(
I had the exact same thing happen on my car. I thought it was strut tops at first (and even replaced them), but it turned out to be the gland nut was loose. I didn't realize you were tracking down a rear clunk or I'd have suggested that.
 
#37 ·
Funny thing is I had the same noise on my black MR2 two years ago....it turned out to be a loose bolt on the lower control arm. I kept tightening all the bolts on this car thinking it was the same thing....imagine my surprise when I was installing my new coolant hose after an interesting battery install (don't ask) at 3am on Sat and touched the strut and it made noise.

Sometime I feel I shouldn't touch cars anymore and just buy a stock civic.

The reason I didn't ask about this though is because most of my questions go unanswered in the MK1 forum or the answers are totaly off.
 
#38 ·
Steve,

I keep getting more pissed at my car's setup.... I went from 1st overall in the point series for my local club to 3rd in 1 rainy event where the setup didn't work....

My problem is one people with dedicated race cars probably have little sympathy for... I need this car to be acceptable to the wife on the street, and not exacerbate my back problems, so here is a hypothetical that I think will help my perspective:

If you had to run softer springs, what percentage softer would they have to be (than ideal with no sways) before you would put a front swaybar back on?

edit: as opposed to just running springs that were too soft to be ideal with no bars.
 
#39 ·
Well, compromise typically results in the car being bad at both.

If you start backing off on spring rate you start having other problems. Roll center movement, hitting the bump stops, slower transitions, camber going positive.... etc....

So compromise is compromise. If you need a better ride, put a swaybar on it.

-Steve
 
#40 ·
XHead said:
Well, compromise typically results in the car being bad at both.

If you start backing off on spring rate you start having other problems. Roll center movement, hitting the bump stops, slower transitions, camber going positive.... etc....

So compromise is compromise. If you need a better ride, put a swaybar on it.

-Steve
thanks. that really firms up my thinking about my ideal compromise setup.
 
#41 ·
Wish I had seen this earlier

I happened upon this thread completely by accident and boy am I glad I did. Steve must be the one who has posted a lot of the comments, which I have seen elsewhere, regarding dumping the front bar, using higher front spring rates, using extremely stiff front strut adjustments, etc. that I used to think were a bit crazy, to put it mildly. I'm sure I probably made one or two negative comments regarding them, which I apologize for. After having read the entirety of Part I & II, I can see exactly what he meant, which as it turns out is somewhat like what I have done (but differently).
For whatever reason, I had never quite grasped the rough equality of high front springs rates to low front spring rates + sway bar. It all makes sense now and I applaud Steve's work on the issue and taking the time to post all of the explanations that he has. I would really like to hear what he has to say regarding struts. :notworthy
Part I & II of this thread should be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to properly set up their MR2.
That being said, I may never go that way myself, simply because my car will always be primarily used on the street and I am not sure I want to deal with the heads or tails coin sensitivity, which such high front spring rates can produce. Other than that though, I can fully attest to the superior attributes of what he has described, only done to what is perhaps a lower standard by using a front sway bar and lower spring rates. I?ll definitely be referring to all of the info contained here as I work on my SC project.
 
#43 ·
Shocks really have a bigger influence on ride quality that springs. That's why I use springs instead of shocks to tune the car's handling balance.

Yes, 700 lbs/in front springs would make the car ride pretty darn firm, but stiffer shocks would likely feel more harsh.

-Steve
 
#44 ·
Steve. I threw 350's on the back just to test em out....car is sooo planted it's not even funny. Only issue is on the tighter courses I can lift the inside front wheel :) So not optimal yet but damn does it feel better.
 
#45 ·
OMG the car feels fantastic. As long as you maintain the tires (heat,pressure) the car can almost be tossed full steam into corners and it will take it and want some more.

Ian (Squirel) Baker drove the car yesterday, got within .6 of his time in the CRX (that thing is nasty seriously) and said that he had to do alot less braking in the MR2 then in the CRX. Just toss and pray :)
 
#46 ·
I know Ian and his CRX. Ians a good driver and the car is well prepared. If he can get to within .6 of his own car in just a few runs in yours, that's impressive. So we have made great progress and now have the car within reach of the front of the class. :thumbup

I would have to assume that the drop in rear spring rate and corresponding improvement is a counter to the lack of roll axis inclination that the Mk1 has.

-Steve
 
#47 ·
XHead said:
Shocks really have a bigger influence on ride quality that springs. That's why I use springs instead of shocks to tune the car's handling balance.

Yes, 700 lbs/in front springs would make the car ride pretty darn firm, but stiffer shocks would likely feel more harsh.

-Steve
to back this statement up:

my car rides better with double the spring rate and appropriate damping in CSP than it did with stock springs and CS race specific damping.

the perception of ride quality created by using damping to stiffen the car is one where driving even on relatively smooth roads seems to feel "rough" but feel relatively cushy over those rare big bumps.

with stiff enough springs to run reasonable damping, the feeling is a almost stock like cushy ride over the small bumps, and a quicker, much harsher impact over bigger bumps.

guess which one makes you remember the ride as "harsh"? The problem for me on the street is that the stiffer the ride rate, the smaller the bump that makes the stiff suspension feel harsh....
 
#48 ·
XHead said:
I know Ian and his CRX. Ians a good driver and the car is well prepared. If he can get to within .6 of his own car in just a few runs in yours, that's impressive. So we have made great progress and now have the car within reach of the front of the class. :thumbup

I would have to assume that the drop in rear spring rate and corresponding improvement is a counter to the lack of roll axis inclination that the Mk1 has.

-Steve
Now all I have to do is learn how to drive :) That will come back. My wife beat me at the last auto-x, she loves how the car feels also.

Yeah I'm going to shed a little legal and unwanted weight from the car durring the winter, make sure the damn hand break cables are new and not half war frozen and a clutch should help also.

I'm as happy as a piggy in a mud hut.
 
#51 ·
Yes, very good info.. These 2 threads are at least putting me in a direction - before I knew I needed to do something, but wasn't sure where to start. The funny thing is I went from applying this to my CSP car, to going all out and building the car for DP :D
 
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