2GR Fuel Rails - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By merryfrankster
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2019, 09:24 Thread Starter
Wilhelm Raceworks, LLC
click here to visit the sponsor page
 
Alex W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bozeman, MT
Age: 35
Posts: 12,609
OldTrader Rating: (120)
2GR Fuel Rails

Thoughts on the Radium fuel rails?



Has anyone ever heard of a failure of the OEM plastic rail? I have not heard of any, but even so the fuel rail being plastic just makes me a little un-easy.

I'm not a big fan of Radium's solution for plumbing the rails together, it just seems excessively complicated. Ideally I would like to see a T before the rails with the connection on the supply side so the rails can be fed in parallel, but given the ID of the rails I'm sure it's not a big deal to feed them in series.

Radium has a pretty affordable "OEM style" pulse damper, just need an adapter to 3/8npt to fit it: Fuel Pulse Damper, OEM Style
If one fed the rails in series the obvious place would be the end of the chain. If you fed them in parallel, would it be better to have one damper at the end of each rail? Or have it in the middle like the OEM location. I wonder if there is enough meat in the side of the rail to drill and tap a hole for the damper? I don't see any good way using available tee fittings to get it in between the two rails otherwise.

I really like how Mark plumbed the feed:


But I would prefer to keep a pulse damper in the system as well. Just unsure if you would need two to really do it properly.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Specializing in suspension and handling for the MKII MR2

Custom Koni coilovers and coilover housings, suspension geometry correction kits, camber/caster plates, big brake kits, and more

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A retro-active build thread for my track / autocross car

Last edited by Alex W; August 5th, 2019 at 10:53.
Alex W is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2019, 10:02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Houston, TX 77055
Posts: 106
OldTrader Rating: (1)
I drilled and tapped the ends of the two stock rails and plumbed them directly into the fuel pressure regulator since it had two inlets.
Simple solution that allows the fpr to be after the rails.
Dr.Pete is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old August 5th, 2019, 10:38 Thread Starter
Wilhelm Raceworks, LLC
click here to visit the sponsor page
 
Alex W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bozeman, MT
Age: 35
Posts: 12,609
OldTrader Rating: (120)
I really don't WANT the regulator after the rails to be honest. I'm totally satisfied with my filter mounted regulator, very clean and simplifies the plumbing a lot.

I have thought about modifying the stock rail like that, but I wonder if there is enough material there to get good secure threads in the end. I would probably worry about that failing more than I worry about the current stock rail to quick disconnect setup that I have now.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Specializing in suspension and handling for the MKII MR2

Custom Koni coilovers and coilover housings, suspension geometry correction kits, camber/caster plates, big brake kits, and more

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A retro-active build thread for my track / autocross car
Alex W is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2019, 00:25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 269
OldTrader Rating: (0)
Garage
You can easily get a FPD in there. You could do an inline "gauge mount" to a -8 AN ORB or even 3/8" NPT version FPD. I'd probably put it right on the main inlet, before both rails.

I would have done some aluminum or stainless hardline in that location too. Those hoses are under too much constant stress right at the end. They'll probably be ok... but for fuel lines I like to make sure things are done right on hose routing.
DefSport is online now  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2019, 07:44 Thread Starter
Wilhelm Raceworks, LLC
click here to visit the sponsor page
 
Alex W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bozeman, MT
Age: 35
Posts: 12,609
OldTrader Rating: (120)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefSport View Post
You can easily get a FPD in there. You could do an inline "gauge mount" to a -8 AN ORB or even 3/8" NPT version FPD. I'd probably put it right on the main inlet, before both rails.

I would have done some aluminum or stainless hardline in that location too. Those hoses are under too much constant stress right at the end. They'll probably be ok... but for fuel lines I like to make sure things are done right on hose routing.
One thing I don't want to do is stack too many adapters. There are lots of T fittings available with 1/8" ports in the side for gauges, but like you said, the FPD's out there are 3/8npt. I'm not sure I like the idea of a 1/8 to 3/8 adapter sticking up with the FPD on top of that. For an extra ~50 bucks I would probably just put a second damper in the end of the other rail.

I do think using a direct fit hose end that eliminates the o-ring adapter would help the hose a lot. You would end up with an extra inch of hose / inch less adapter and fitting, so it would have a lot more ability to flex.

But, a piece of hardline and some tube nuts is an option as well, I have thought briefly about doing that but was a little worried that it would be hard to get a short piece to match up perfectly. I have a nice AN flare tool and a cheap tube bender, it's certainly worth a try.

Or just build a hardline loop for the far end and put a single damper at the end of the second rail. That's probably the most economical solution, but it doesn't have the "feel good" aspect of feeding the rails in parallel instead of in series.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Specializing in suspension and handling for the MKII MR2

Custom Koni coilovers and coilover housings, suspension geometry correction kits, camber/caster plates, big brake kits, and more

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A retro-active build thread for my track / autocross car
Alex W is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2019, 19:22
Nik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,234
OldTrader Rating: (13)
It's been a few years since I've had hands on Radium products but one thing that turned me off was that they machined all of their ports for O-ring fittings with just a chamfer instead of the spec SAE J1936 port. It would work, but also potentially damage the o-ring. Also their "NPT" fitting OEM type FPD probably has BSPT threads ("metric" pipe threads) from a Kia/Hyundai product, which are very close, and would fit together, once. I hope the latest versions have been updated because they do make a lot of stuff for a lot of platforms that otherwise don't get a lot of attention, at reasonable prices.

I did design and start prototyping my own, because like you the plastic rails make me uneasy, even if unfounded. I found OEM FPDs that use an o-ring seal like the injectors (no adapters.) I just keep running out of time. With the lower manifold and rocker covers, it is hard to get everything to fit, and I'm 3 iterations in, so props to Radium (and people like Alex and Marc) for getting a product out there.
Nik is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old August 6th, 2019, 22:58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 269
OldTrader Rating: (0)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
One thing I don't want to do is stack too many adapters. There are lots of T fittings available with 1/8" ports in the side for gauges, but like you said, the FPD's out there are 3/8npt. I'm not sure I like the idea of a 1/8 to 3/8 adapter sticking up with the FPD on top of that. For an extra ~50 bucks I would probably just put a second damper in the end of the other rail.

I do think using a direct fit hose end that eliminates the o-ring adapter would help the hose a lot. You would end up with an extra inch of hose / inch less adapter and fitting, so it would have a lot more ability to flex.

But, a piece of hardline and some tube nuts is an option as well, I have thought briefly about doing that but was a little worried that it would be hard to get a short piece to match up perfectly. I have a nice AN flare tool and a cheap tube bender, it's certainly worth a try.

Or just build a hardline loop for the far end and put a single damper at the end of the second rail. That's probably the most economical solution, but it doesn't have the "feel good" aspect of feeding the rails in parallel instead of in series.
The aluminum hardline for tubing is easy to move around, I think it's 6061-T4 or even something like a 3003. Vibrant's stuff is really easy to work with: https://vibrantperformance.com/catal...1347_1517_1457


You could always weld up something custom to get away from an extra connection, say take a tee and chop an end off and weld on a 3/8" NPT male fitting.
DefSport is online now  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2019, 08:52 Thread Starter
Wilhelm Raceworks, LLC
click here to visit the sponsor page
 
Alex W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bozeman, MT
Age: 35
Posts: 12,609
OldTrader Rating: (120)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik View Post
It's been a few years since I've had hands on Radium products but one thing that turned me off was that they machined all of their ports for O-ring fittings with just a chamfer instead of the spec SAE J1936 port. It would work, but also potentially damage the o-ring. Also their "NPT" fitting OEM type FPD probably has BSPT threads ("metric" pipe threads) from a Kia/Hyundai product, which are very close, and would fit together, once. I hope the latest versions have been updated because they do make a lot of stuff for a lot of platforms that otherwise don't get a lot of attention, at reasonable prices.

I did design and start prototyping my own, because like you the plastic rails make me uneasy, even if unfounded. I found OEM FPDs that use an o-ring seal like the injectors (no adapters.) I just keep running out of time. With the lower manifold and rocker covers, it is hard to get everything to fit, and I'm 3 iterations in, so props to Radium (and people like Alex and Marc) for getting a product out there.
I saw an old thread on the early Radium rails (rail anodized green) that mentioned the o-ring seat issue. I was hoping that the new design had changed that, but it's hard to tell from the pictures. But looking closely... it looks like they may not have changed it. I *think* that their regulators have the proper port now, but I don't remember for sure (I have a few on the way, I will have to take a look).

Regarding FPD's, I just found this page: https://go-parts.com/ps-mmp.php?part...ressure+Damper Nice list of OEM parts from different applications with pictures, so it's easy to identify potential candidates. Might be a useful website in the future for other projects as well... There are a number of likely candidates there, some very affordable too. Anyone have any experience with Standard Motor products? They seem to be one of the main aftermarket supplier for a lot of these.

Ideally I would like to see a port on the bottom of the rail specifically for the FPD. I'm not sure if there is room to hang one down there between the injectors, but if there is, it frees up the ends of the rails for whatever plumbing you want. Plus, there isn't much room between the end of the rail and the head (on the outboard side of the rear bank), so putting the damper somewhere other than the end of the rail would be nice.

And fuel rail extrusion is pretty cheap... You probably see where I'm going with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefSport View Post
The aluminum hardline for tubing is easy to move around, I think it's 6061-T4 or even something like a 3003. Vibrant's stuff is really easy to work with: https://vibrantperformance.com/catal...1347_1517_1457

You could always weld up something custom to get away from an extra connection, say take a tee and chop an end off and weld on a 3/8" NPT male fitting.
Yeah, most of my previous hardline experience has been with stainless. You pretty much have to get that right on. But it's probably way over kill.

My welds are pretty decent, but I'm not sure how I feel about welding on fuel fittings! But I guess that's what pressure testing is for.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Specializing in suspension and handling for the MKII MR2

Custom Koni coilovers and coilover housings, suspension geometry correction kits, camber/caster plates, big brake kits, and more

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
A retro-active build thread for my track / autocross car

Last edited by Alex W; August 7th, 2019 at 09:03.
Alex W is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old August 7th, 2019, 17:03
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Maui, HI
Posts: 1,130
OldTrader Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
Anyone have any experience with Standard Motor products? They seem to be one of the main aftermarket supplier for a lot of these.
My corner parts store carries it, so I had plenty experience with this brand over the years. Compared to other brands, many parts bad BNIB, or incorrect function/specification/fit, or premature failure. This is based on sensors, actuators, ignition parts. Never tried FPD. Their FPD's could be all good for all I know. Ha ha.
Alex W likes this.
merryfrankster is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MR2 Owners Club Message Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: (0 members)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome