Tools to tune your own 2GR-FE/2AR-FE stock ECU. - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 07:11 Thread Starter
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Tools to tune your own 2GR-FE/2AR-FE stock ECU.

I don't have full details yet but I'm working with someone right now that can provide us with a tuning suite for the 2GR-FE ECUs and I'm trying to get a feel for things.

I've been working with this guy for a bit, it's why i have injector sizing information at this point. and this guy isn't just about finding maps but there's possibilities to pay to get software patches applied for different functionality of all kinds up to and including things like launch control.

Pricing isn't 100% firm yet but this is what it's looking like at this point:

$400(5-plug)/$420(2-plug) for the base tune to be placed on an ECU. As with before I have cores here and I can provide an ECU without a core. Those costs haven't changed. This is essentially a $50 premium on the current ECU prices because there's quite a bit that goes into this. This will be for a tunable ECU. (an upgrade/exchange price from a currently tuned ECU will be $60 for 5-plug and $80 for a 2-plug)

Next is the cost of the hardware and software to do the tuning. At this moment suite will unfortunately be locked to only one type of ECU (2-plug or 5-plug) but i will do my best to make it so it can do all of my ECUs with just one purchase. This looks like it will be $450. This is a bit pricey but keep in mind you guys can go in together on it in a geographic area and tune more than one ECU with this stuff. currently though it would only support one calibration ID per purchase if i don't manage to get them to change that. If you guys plan on mailing the stuff back and forth do keep in mind that some of the software gets locked down to the machine itself so you guys would also have to mail a laptop back and forth. Thankfully the software does not require much power so even a cheap laptop would do. I won't discourage you guys from sharing things like this.

Note this is not a generic tuning suite. it will only work with my ECUs. but the flip side of this is i get to maintain the tunes in a way that makes them way more appropriate for our application. This is really just something relevant to say for the couple rav4 guys that hang around here.

I will be doing the main maintenance so things should stay up to date. I will occasionally have to wait for someone else when a patch needs to be made or when something new needs to be found.

Right now things are in a bit of a holding pattern but i wanted to start this discussion because i was curious what kind of upgrades you would want to see. on my list right now:

1)better throttle control. make it a simple tunable map that takes in pedal position and RPM and outputs a blade position. other than things like idle nothing should override this.
2)overrun fueling. this is a high performance mid engine sports car, it would be nice if it sounded a bit more like one.
3)idle "hang" fixes so the idle does not hang when the vehicle isn't at 0mph.
4) this one is further out but i also want launch control implemented on the 2ar-fe for boost. i may also bring it to the 2GR but frankly it has enough torque down low to launch hard anyways so that may or may not happen depending on the cost.

These upgrades have time and money associated with them so keep in mind even if they are a good idea they won't necessarily be implemented right away.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 07:55
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That's awesome Marc. Definitely interested. I am pretty happy with the current tune, but it would be nice to be able to make changes.

Do you know if it will be possible to make real time changes, or is it "make a change, re-flash the ECU", meaning you lose any long term learning? Just thinking back to some of the troubles we had last summer where I really needed to do a bit of driving before dynoing to be sure the ECU was happy.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 08:34 Thread Starter
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Alex, there will not be any real time changes possible. I'm sure the ECU can support it but someone would have to figure out all the protocols to do it and since the Denso tools to do it don't exist in the wild there's no good place to start to figure it out from.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 08:35 Thread Starter
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Oh and i haven't tried these tools yet i've been focusing on working with them to identify stuff inside the ECU so far. but OBDII reflashing for these ECUs should take about 1.5-2 minutes so the cycle time won't be terrible.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 09:42
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I figured as much. Not that real time tuning is a deal breaker, just figured it was worth asking about.


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 16:35
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This is a very welcome advancement. Up to this point, the potential for tuning the stock ECU has been proven in the NA tunes, specifically the tuned intake. The stock ECU support for boost has been limited to the TRD/Aurion supercharger tune, which has shortcomings. With the new tuning suite it should become possible to support a wider range of boosted applications. I don't know what would be entailed in turbo support versus supercharger support but, in my view, enough flexibility to support turbo is a must-have. Turbo support would be my reason for purchasing these tools and I'll be looking for the details of how the implementation will support it. As long as we're talking about patches and without considering feasibility, the top of my wish list would be electronic boost control. Possibly this could be done by patching the torque converter lockup solenoid, and line pressure sensor, which are already pinned on the ECU. Or maybe even no patching is required it would just be a matter of re-purposing the torque converter map. Also, there would be some challenges in tuning a boosted car safely when every change requires a re-flash. And up to this point there has been no discussion of the knock sensors as inputs to the ECU and how they figure in the engine control strategy. We can never really talk about tuning a knock limited engine without talking about knock detection and knock control. So anything that makes tuning easier and safer would be welcome. Of course the ultimate responsibility for safe tuning is with the tuner, but anything that makes the job easier is a plus.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old April 22nd, 2019, 21:40 Thread Starter
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yeah, tuning the stock ECU will never be a fantastic experience. but that knock stuff you speak of is one of the big advantages of the stock ECU. The knock frequencies and response should not need to be tweaked as long as you don't replace the internals so the knock frequencies are the same as stock.

I don't expect that most will want to tune their ECU. But i hope enough interest gets drummed up so i can get more money to roll back into improvements for the tunes.

The boost control is actually something i've been thinking of but thanks for mentioning it.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:43
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It's a small thing but maybe that means it would easy? But with a lightweight flywheel and a grippy clutch a slightly higher target idle speed would increase drivability. 800 rpm or so vs 650.

Other small things that are probably hard; replacing some of MR2 ECU functionality with regards to the cars systems. Things like idle up PS and AC, and mode switches PSCT (engine running) and ACT (high rpm/high load.) There's other ways to accomplish these well enough (rpm switches and idle-up vsv,) but it would be cool to hijack some of the unused IOs on the ECU and build it in.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:54 Thread Starter
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Yup, idle maps should be in there. Those are just maps though, patches aren't needed.

idle up might be a thing by modifying maps and using the existing load inputs (ELS1,ELS2,ELS3) but usuing currently unmapped I/O is unlikely to happen any time soon. none of the chips have documentation on the peripherals inside them. so changing logic is way easier than changing pin assignments. Also even if it could be done it would require extra components to be soldered onto the circuit boards since Toyota left off the passive components for the unused I/O channels.

But with that said, there's enough mapped I/O that isn't used in our application that it might still be possible to do extra stuff. controlling the power steering stuff is not really on the list though. it can so easily just be controlled by the fuel pump control line to make it so it does not run when the engine is off that it isn't worth paying extra to have the functionality added to the ECU.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 20:57
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Not that I have much to add to the conversation but I purchased a MR2 a couple months ago and am planning a 2GR swap along with a track build. I have only been lurking up until now but wanted to note I am interested in supporting this.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 21:05
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I would be keen to support this as well.
I have a fully functional TRD 2gr swap that I would like to get a bit more out of .
I have a spare ECU here that is out of a standard Aurion but is same part number as the TRD one just without the modified flash, will this work as a core?
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 21:14
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Oh and one of the things I would love to get working is the cruise control, I have everything wired up as it should be but it won’t engage, either because of the transmission error code or because the PRNDL input needs to be on N to keep it out of limp mode
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old April 23rd, 2019, 21:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perthmr2 View Post
Oh and one of the things I would love to get working is the cruise control, I have everything wired up as it should be but it won’t engage, either because of the transmission error code or because the PRNDL input needs to be on N to keep it out of limp mode
Do you have a relay / both of the brake inputs wired? Other than that, it does seem likely that it won't engage if it thinks it's in neutral.


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2019, 05:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by perthmr2 View Post
Oh and one of the things I would love to get working is the cruise control, I have everything wired up as it should be but it won’t engage, either because of the transmission error code or because the PRNDL input needs to be on N to keep it out of limp mode
Do you have a relay / both of the brake inputs wired? Other than that, it does seem likely that it won't engage if it thinks it's in neutral.
Yes I had factory cruise control on the original 3Sge so I wired up both brake inputs and modified the resistors in the stalk, obviously not having a cruise light is not helpful, I am almost thinking of getting some Aurion clocks to see if I can at least get the cruise light to work over Canbus
I am pretty competent with wiring, after all I was the one who discovered the mrel wire not being connected on the 3vzfe was causing the idle stall issues 😊

Last edited by perthmr2; April 24th, 2019 at 05:56.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2019, 06:43 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by perthmr2 View Post
I would be keen to support this as well.
I have a fully functional TRD 2gr swap that I would like to get a bit more out of .
I have a spare ECU here that is out of a standard Aurion but is same part number as the TRD one just without the modified flash, will this work as a core?
The aurion ECU is unfortunately not a valid core. At the moment i am still unable to disable the immobilizer on that one.

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Oh and one of the things I would love to get working is the cruise control, I have everything wired up as it should be but it won’t engage, either because of the transmission error code or because the PRNDL input needs to be on N to keep it out of limp mode
Cruise at the moment only works on the 2-plug ECU but you need to have the PRNDL in D. I'm not sure what limp issue you're having but you should start a thread about it so we can walk through it and help you out.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old April 24th, 2019, 21:33
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Limp mode on a TRD Aurion ECU... hmm.

I did try both N and D with mine, and still had an immediate throttle limp before the engine was even started. Then I gave up after a week of frustration at the end of the driving season.

However, if this process could be used to break the 290whp barrier and get a tune out of the Rav4 ECU to use with a Supercharger, I’m in.
Otherwise, I’d have to move on to a Haltech or a Link.

Is a Techstream scantool anything beneficial to the process?


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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old April 25th, 2019, 07:23
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Limp mode on a TRD Aurion ECU... hmm.

I did try both N and D with mine, and still had an immediate throttle limp before the engine was even started. Then I gave up after a week of frustration at the end of the driving season
This is exactly the issue I had but in my case N worked, I will start a new thread to discuss this
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