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post #41 of 69 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2015, 09:01
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how we looking

Project 5S-GE: 180WHP/140LBS 2.2L Stroker NA On E85 (More WHP On The Way!):
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N/A Guys tune/replace and modify the items that are allegedly good till 700+WHP?
Quotes: deviantv1ral *5sge master* Medpilot *MR2 god*
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post #42 of 69 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2015, 09:15 Thread Starter
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Funny you should ask! Finally got all of my LS parts together and got the motor built about 75% over the weekend.





Snag #1: cam came with 3 bolt pattern instead of newer 1 bolt. So I am now waiting on this to come before I can finish out the front of the motor. http://www.texas-speed.com/p-3969-gm...-reluctor.aspx



I'm running a DOD delete kit which includes an LS3 valley cover. PCV nipple (red) is on the drive belt side. And the oil pressure sender boss is on the rear.



Snag #2: when running a reversed LS2 intake, the oil pressure sender boss gets in the way so that you can't fully seat the intake.







Luckily there's this: http://store.katechengines.com/mobil...take-p148.aspx

Designed for running a reversed LS2 on an LS3 valley cover! Grind off the boss, sand smooth, RTV the adapter on and should be good to go.

I'll write up the rest when it arrives.


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post #43 of 69 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2015, 10:12
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nice... you're almost there.. how did the welding go?

Project 5S-GE: 180WHP/140LBS 2.2L Stroker NA On E85 (More WHP On The Way!):
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N/A Guys tune/replace and modify the items that are allegedly good till 700+WHP?
Quotes: deviantv1ral *5sge master* Medpilot *MR2 god*
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post #44 of 69 (permalink) Old May 18th, 2015, 10:14 Thread Starter
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Nothing on the welding yet. It's all clearanced at the moment so I know it fits. Working up a cradle (made from a tranny jack) to lift the engine and transmission so that I can fabricate motor mounts. This will take some time.


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post #45 of 69 (permalink) Old May 27th, 2015, 21:02 Thread Starter
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Ok... I've been busy... Here goes:

Clearanced the car. Four places required: pass unibody tube, drivers side, pass side k-member, and high on the forward firewall.

Driver side:




Pass side:




Firewall:


K member:


Admittedly I've hacked a little deeper into the pass side than necessary but it leaves me with lots of room for a healthy amount of build back when it comes to welding.


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post #46 of 69 (permalink) Old May 27th, 2015, 21:33 Thread Starter
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My motor:
You know I'm running an LS4 but here are a few specifics:

LS4 picked up as a wrecked pullout with 19000 miles. Bores are pristine and the guts of this turkey are in great shape.

LS2 intake, throttle body, injectors and rails.

Truck MAF (90mm)

Custom CAM spec'ed by Patrick Guerra (http://www.guerragroup.com). I would highly recommend him for any custom cam. His recommendation for my build was 226/230 .604/.604" 112LSA +4 and cam features EPS HiRev custom lobes ground under license by Cam Motion on both intake and exhaust. EPS is who actually made the cam.

In order to get higher revs I'm running Brian Tooley Racing's SK001 platinum spring kit.
http://www.briantooleyracing.com/660...ers-sk001.html

I'm also running BTR's DOD delete kit, upgraded with LS7 lifters, and ARP head bolts. http://www.briantooleyracing.com/btr...elete-kit.html


The stock 243 heads are pretty good but I had Late Model Engines (highly recommend!) do their new CNC port job. They are really clean and while I don't remember the specific flow numbers but they're opened up a ton.


One last little detail is the Katech oil sender boss that's required to reverse mount an LS2 intake on the LS3 valley cover included in the DOD delete kit.

Here's that little modification detail:








Here's the latest and greatest images of the assembled motor:










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post #47 of 69 (permalink) Old May 27th, 2015, 21:43 Thread Starter
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In order to get my motor and trans in and out of the engine bay and NOT use any of the motor mount locations (so that I can design mounts that use those locations) I needed a cradle setup that was stable enough for both the LS4 and F40 to ride on. So... I borrowed my dad's motorcycle jack:









Great way to do it... And highlights a few interferences:












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post #48 of 69 (permalink) Old May 27th, 2015, 21:46 Thread Starter
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Oh... And regarding that last photo of my trans above... Bought a 0 miles one and can't wait to take that rusty turd off of there. Makes a good stand in though. (Let me know if anyone wants to buy the turd).


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post #49 of 69 (permalink) Old May 28th, 2015, 07:18
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I like it, the things gonna be beast. Sorry for my lack of info, but can the ls4 be made to around the same power levels as the rwd ls engines?
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post #50 of 69 (permalink) Old May 28th, 2015, 07:58 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdyzz View Post
I like it, the things gonna be beast. Sorry for my lack of info, but can the ls4 be made to around the same power levels as the rwd ls engines?
Yes it can. The only difference between the LS4 and LS2 (in terms of power level) is the displacement... 5.3 vs 6.0 for the LS2. My tuner has mentioned that with the mods listed above, we should be able to put down a conservative 400rwtq from about 1800 rpm through 5500... The area under the curve should be unreal and is going to be a major difference compared to the peaky curve that a blown 4-cyl gets... that and the V8 soundtrack
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post #51 of 69 (permalink) Old May 28th, 2015, 11:57
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Wow.. This is awesome.. ____ on the pass side though.. I would suggest welding something back like a 1/4 inch [ shaped sleeve into that section to make sure you have good structural strength in that area. you can have 1/4 steel bent to spec at many places. you can even get more than one piece made up and fit one piece into place then slip the other over that piece once welded in the bridge the gap. I would hate to see the car hit on that side.. But if that's done you should be fine.. This sucker will move.. 2 bad it wasn't in a Mk2.. i love them much more over the Mk3 :-)

Project 5S-GE: 180WHP/140LBS 2.2L Stroker NA On E85 (More WHP On The Way!):
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N/A Guys tune/replace and modify the items that are allegedly good till 700+WHP?
Quotes: deviantv1ral *5sge master* Medpilot *MR2 god*
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post #52 of 69 (permalink) Old May 28th, 2015, 12:02 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eazy2001x View Post
Wow.. This is awesome.. ____ on the pass side though.. I would suggest welding something back like a 1/4 inch [ shaped sleeve into that section to make sure you have good structural strength in that area. you can have 1/4 steel bent to spec at many places. you can even get more than one piece made up and fit one piece into place then slip the other over that piece once welded in the bridge the gap. I would hate to see the car hit on that side.. But if that's done you should be fine.. This sucker will move.. 2 bad it wasn't in a Mk2.. i love them much more over the Mk3 :-)
I've been waiting to hear from you, eazy

At this point it's only clearanced... I'll weld back just like you describe once the motor is all the way mounted. The more I look at it, the more I think when I do this again, I'll just rosebud and sledge it out of the way.... we knew this was a prototype though, right?!

Travis
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post #53 of 69 (permalink) Old May 29th, 2015, 07:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eazy2001x View Post
Wow.. This is awesome.. ____ on the pass side though.. I would suggest welding something back like a 1/4 inch [ shaped sleeve into that section to make sure you have good structural strength in that area. you can have 1/4 steel bent to spec at many places. you can even get more than one piece made up and fit one piece into place then slip the other over that piece once welded in the bridge the gap. I would hate to see the car hit on that side.. But if that's done you should be fine.. This sucker will move.. 2 bad it wasn't in a Mk2.. i love them much more over the Mk3 :-)
I don't know about .25" steel, usually even if what you are reinforcing something with is thicker its only as strong as what its fused to. In this case most likely 14-16 ga steel. Me personally I find .125" or .1875" to be enough, If adding strength back in I'd connect the section that hasn't been cut with a .125 wall thickness tube.

Also I feel that .25" steel will require a good amount of heat to fuse it properly to the thinner metal, which then will add quite a bit to the HAZ and make the thin stuff that much more brittle by the weld. Thin brittle metal usually tears off quite easily, but i'm sure you know that. But hey if your able to pull it off more power to you, do what you gotta do.

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post #54 of 69 (permalink) Old May 29th, 2015, 10:54
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understood.. I always thought people heated the thicker walled material before welding it to the thinner one. Maybe 1/4 is a little thick but i was thinking more towards structural integrity more than anything else especially because your cut is more of a V shape than a square cutout so an impact on the opposite side will result in a split on the opposite side. regardless of my thought process, as long as you put enough thought into the area you should be fine.

Project 5S-GE: 180WHP/140LBS 2.2L Stroker NA On E85 (More WHP On The Way!):
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N/A Guys tune/replace and modify the items that are allegedly good till 700+WHP?
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post #55 of 69 (permalink) Old May 29th, 2015, 12:43
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When you weld thick to thin you do put more heat on the thicker material, but as I've said the strength of the 1/4" plates ability to keep structure is only as good as what its welded to. In this case it maybe better to reinforce it in a different manner after you close up the cut. What i'm getting at is you can tie the strut tower to the section where the cut is and triangulate it, it may be more effective than the 1/4" ] channel. I'm sure the OP knows that he's doing since this is one of those builds where as they say if you gotta ask then you don't have the ability to do it.

If you ever bent a piece of say 18 ga steel after its been corner or butt welded to a thicker piece of steel the 18 ga can crack along the toes of the weld. I personally would do it differently, but you gotta stick to what you know. If what your doing works use what you know. The angle i'm speaking from is from bend test and such so it may be different from your application. Either way I love to see when guys fabricate stuff.

Last edited by rdyzz; May 29th, 2015 at 12:55.
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post #56 of 69 (permalink) Old May 29th, 2015, 13:36 Thread Starter
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So adding a thick hunk of material doesn't really limit you... the limitation is how large your weld size can be (based on the thinner material being joined)...

The only concern that i have is that those tubes are actually 2-ply.. and if I join something to them I'll have to be careful with the preps so that I can engage that inner ply.

Not ready to sweat those details but I know it'll be chunky as hell when it's done.
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post #57 of 69 (permalink) Old June 1st, 2015, 12:24
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Following... Awesome and lots of progress so far!! Keep going!! Don't quit!!
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post #58 of 69 (permalink) Old June 6th, 2015, 10:01 Thread Starter
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Ls4 mr-s

Thanks Mike. Don't worry I won't quit... I'm just slow is all.

An update on the Katech sensor. The $69 Katech oil pressure sender adapter will NOT work with an LS2 intake. In order to find this out I had to machine my valley cover down .200" and the fitting still didn't fit.

It's handy to have access to an at home CNC setup. (Thanks Eric).





So I whined a bit to Jason at Katech and we all agreed that the LS3 fitting is actually the one that I need. So they graciously sent the smaller fittings ($169) and I'm to return the original one.

On the left the $69 one. On the right $169. You can see that there's a difference in the size.





So now it fits 100%. So I torqued down the adapter and the valley cover and then the intake. Top end of the motor is done.


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post #59 of 69 (permalink) Old June 6th, 2015, 10:07 Thread Starter
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In other news, I found a great deal on a new (0 miles) F40 transmission that I couldn't pass up. This coupled with the fact that my current F40 won't shift and looks like it's been in a fire (being a pullout, it may have). Next week I have the joyous task of trying to get the junk yard that I bought it from to take back their broken trans.

Here are pics of the new one.









Clean as a whistle.


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post #60 of 69 (permalink) Old June 6th, 2015, 10:33 Thread Starter
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Accessory drive plan:

Take off LS4 water pump and use a remote electric Meziere pump mounted up off the bottom of the radiator. Mount the Toyota AC compressor down low where the LS compressor goes and run an LS1 alternator (not LS4) under the forward head.

If I keep the ls4 water pump on I'll have to inverse mount the alternator. West coast Fiero has a bracket for that but it puts the butt end of the alternator too far forward for the spyder.
http://www.westcoastfiero.com/engine...isntalled.html

So I started thinking through a spyder version of that bracket.






Here's what the motor looks like bare. For now you'll have to imagine what the hoses will look like plugging directly into the water ports. I'll fully detail that once I have all of my parts.



And without the pump on the motor, I can get the motor to full height and correct position in the car.





And incidentally it looks like I may have not needed to clearance the on the drivers side... Oh well I'll fix it for this time and when all of you start doing this, you'll know to avoid it




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