$400 new F40 6 sped transmissions - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 15:07 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh / Durham NC
Age: 40
Posts: 4,919
OldTrader Rating: (12)
$400 new F40 6 sped transmissions

http://www.schramauto.com/Search/Par...d=18968&name=0

If the link does not work, search 2006, pontiac, G6 manual transmission.

This mates to a few fun motors (LS4, many big v6's). There is this v6 flange available, and the 4cyl ecotec bellhousing if someone wanted one for the 2.0/ 2.2 ecotec motors, or the Saab 2.8 turbo 6
Jared is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 15:30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rockville, MD/Camp Hill, PA
Age: 30
Posts: 838
OldTrader Rating: (25)
hmmmm, wonder if that could be a sold option for us e153 guys so we could get some 6 speed functionality. Custom axles for sure but hmmmmm none the less.


wouldnt the linkages be backwards though since its a fwd trans?
Mr208 is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 16:08 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh / Durham NC
Age: 40
Posts: 4,919
OldTrader Rating: (12)
This is a GM transmission made by Getrag. It has absolutely nothing to do with toyota or the E153. If you want a 6 speed, use the toyota 6 speed that mates to the 3s. See the v6 forum for more info on that. this is specificaly for people doing crazy cool swaps such as the LS4 or 3800 supercharged motor that want a manual tranny. It will be very custom for axles, mounts, linkages/cables etc. In fact, if you mate it to the 5.3L LS4 there is no way to mount a starter unless you cut a hole in the case and use a bracket. The fiero forums have how to threads on this.
Jared is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 17:05
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rockville, MD/Camp Hill, PA
Age: 30
Posts: 838
OldTrader Rating: (25)
oh alright, just a thought.
Mr208 is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 20:32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Covington, LA
Age: 48
Posts: 9,170
OldTrader Rating: (4)
an ecotec swap wouldn't be bad. 260hp/260torque/6 speed. If you could do the wiring. Plus much more to be made.
scottgas is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 20:34 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh / Durham NC
Age: 40
Posts: 4,919
OldTrader Rating: (12)
yeah they do 700+ whp through this transmission and the F23 and F35 variants.
Jared is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old October 24th, 2012, 23:18
engineer4me
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Age: 38
Posts: 2,730
OldTrader Rating: (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared
yeah they do 700+ whp through this transmission and the F23 and F35 variants.
I thought the F35 was having problems with cases breaking at a lot less than 700whp? Like closer to 400whp. That's what's got me concerned about the F40, because it is so close to the F35. The OEM Quaife in the Cobalt interchanges with the F40, so a high quality LSD is available.

I've got an F40 on the shelf, I bought it years ago when they changed the gear ratios in 07 and blew out the 06's. I don't see why it wouldn't be an option for the 3S since an adapter plate would be needed to an EA or EB also. The F40 is narrower than the E153 so other than all the custom work, it should be doable.
pablo is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old October 25th, 2012, 07:46 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh / Durham NC
Age: 40
Posts: 4,919
OldTrader Rating: (12)
I though the EA / EB did bolt to the 3s without an adapter plate?

I heard the F35 had cracking issues too, and the F23 was actually stronger than it, but I did not hear anything bad on the F40. Either way, It is cheap for a brand new transmission!
Jared is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old October 29th, 2012, 15:15
engineer4me
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Age: 38
Posts: 2,730
OldTrader Rating: (13)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared
I though the EA / EB did bolt to the 3s without an adapter plate?

I heard the F35 had cracking issues too, and the F23 was actually stronger than it, but I did not hear anything bad on the F40. Either way, It is cheap for a brand new transmission!
The EA uses an adapter plate in the Lotus to mate to the 2GR. So bolting it to a 3S wouldn't be difficult since there is a part being produced. But there is still an adapter plate. The EA trans is also used in the Mazdaspeed3 and the Mitsubishi Eclipse with the 3.8L V6.

I haven't heard anything bad about the F40 either, but I've only seen it used in a few Fieros, and judging by the body kits and 20's on the cars, I don't think they ever planned on putting a lot of power through them. For example, supercharged LS7:


If you read the thread, I think the gears were micropolished and cryo treated. But with that much power, and a less than ideal chassis setup, breaking the tires loose at the first blip of the throttle really doesn't do much to test the limits of the trans, since as soon as the tires slip the gearbox is seeing a lot less load.

I'd have to find the threads on the Cobalt F35 again, but IIRC(and this was a lot of years ago that I bought the F40), the F35's were cracking at where the intermediate shaft is mounted in the case, on the bellhousing side. And I think it was happening with stock power levels when people were launching the cars hard. I seem to remember the webbing in the trans to be pretty close between the two transmissions as well.

I'm not saying not to use the transmission, but if I were planning on putting a lot of power through it, I'd have a plan B in case the transmission just isn't up to the task. At $400 you could just buy a few transmissions and replace when necessary, but I would rather overbuild everything and never work on it again.
pablo is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old October 29th, 2012, 15:34 Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Raleigh / Durham NC
Age: 40
Posts: 4,919
OldTrader Rating: (12)
Oddly, Someone confirmed the lotus adapter plate is not even needed.. I think it was to mount the starter differently.. It was a mk3 spyder swap...

and yeah, Absurd power prob will not wok out well with the F40 or ANY fwd transaxle. but it is rated for 295 ft/lb and the typical swaps seem to be okay with it.
Jared is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reno NV
Age: 47
Posts: 2,497
OldTrader Rating: (19)
the F40 is not made by Getrag.

The F40 is designed for an engine that has the starter mounted on the engine (not on the trans like a E153/S54). If the starter is mounted in the valley (for example, Cadillac Northstar), their is room to cut/grind out clearance for the nose of the starter. The bellhousing, in stock form, has clearance for the starter at 8 o'clock (or 4 o'clock, I can't remember which).

2006 F40 (MT2)
1 3.77
2 2.04
3 1.32
4 .95
5 .76
6 .62

final 3.55

2006 F40 (MT2) Type: transverse front wheel drive, six speed manual transaxle Engine range: 3.9L Maximum engine torque: 245 lb-ft ( 333 Nm ) Maximum gearbox torque: 295 lb-ft ( 400 Nm )

Maximum validated gross vehicle weight: 3527 lb ( 1600 kg ) Case material: aluminum Center distance: 197 mm Fluid type: Castrol BOT 0063 Transmission weight: 56 kg ( 123.5 lb ) Fluid capacity (approximate): 3.1L / 3.27 qt ( dry ) Power take off: no Applications: Pontiac 2006 G6

Summary of F40 info by CBulen:
The 2006 Pontiac G6 GTP F40 (MT2) is related to the F35 used in the 2005-2006 Chevy Cobalt SS and Saturn Ion Redline. The F40 was originally used in the Saab 9-5 cars, and that version of the trans has a different bellhousing and bellhousing bolt pattern, so it cannot be used with the Northstar 4.6L or earlier Caddy 4.9L V8 like the G6 F40 can.
GM decided to change the ratios for 2007 (now called the F40 MU9), and liquidated their stocks of 2006 (MT2) F40?s so they are for sale very cheap, everywhere (at least for a while). Another potential reason for the liquidation is gear rattle in neutral of the 2006 F40, and possibly one other problem that G6 owners have complained about ? a possibility of the trans popping out of gear, but this appears to have been fixed by changing the cables, by adding a 3rd cable.

Quaife makes an LSD for the F40

I have a ton of other info about this trans.

2007 F40 (MU9)
Excerpt from GM documents I have:
Quote:
2008 F40 (MU9)
General Motors Powertrain-Europe F40 six-speed manual car transaxle
2008 Model Year Summary

Carryover Features and Benefits from 2007 model year

DETENT SYSTEM FOR QUICKER AND EASIER SHIFTING
The addition of a ball-and-spring-type detent on the shift sleeve and detents on the shift rail assists the driver in shifting quicker. The detent raises the force required to move the shift lever which prevents excess movement of the shifter by the driver, and reduces the chance of double bump. Tension between the shift sleeve and the shift rail also prevents the sleeve from vibrating while in gear.

GEAR RATIO CHANGES FOR QUICKER ACCELERATION
To adapt the F40 to North American applications and maximize performance, 3rd through 6th gears have been changed to higher-ratio gears starting in 2007 model year. The ratio for 3rd gear is now 1.37:1, and the ratio for 4th gear is no longer an overdrive, with a new ratio of 1.05:1. The 5th gear ratio is 0.85:1 and the 6th gear ratio is 0.71:1.

LOW MAINTENANCE

The MT2/MU9 uses a Castrol Burmah (BOT 0063) manual transmission fluid, and is validated as "fill-for-life". No maintenance is required for normal operation.

OVERVIEW

Originally a design developed for Fiat, Opel and Saab applications, the F40 (MT2) is a GM Powertrain - Europe six-speed manual transaxle built in Russelsheim, Germany. Its first use in a North American application was the Pontiac G6 for the 2006 model year. It is also used in some Saab 9-3 and 9-5 models.

It is a three-axis design, with first, second, fifth, and sixth gears on an output shaft behind and below the input shaft, and third and fourth gears are on an output shaft in front of and above the input shaft. Both output shaft pinions drive a helical gear with a conventional differential. The clutch is mounted on a dual-mass flywheel to dampen vibrations on whichever output shaft is idle depending upon which gear is selected.

The F40 is cast in aluminum, and weighs 124 pounds (see specs). It has been certified for up to 400 Nm of engine torque.

Triple-cone synchronizers are used on 1st and 2nd gears. These synchronizers have three friction surfaces, which increase their ability to transfer the flow of torque more smoothly from one gear to another. Synchronizers act as clutches to speed up or slow down the gearsets that are being shifted to, and greater friction area results in easier shifting for the driver. The 3rd, 4th, and reverse synchronizers are double-cone, while the 5th and 6th gear synchronizers are single-cone. All of the friction surfaces on the synchronizer rings are sintered bronze. The ratios in the 6-speed are widely spaced for versatile performance and efficiency.
cbulen is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:40
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reno NV
Age: 47
Posts: 2,497
OldTrader Rating: (19)
Also, just an FYI, horsepower is not what kills transmissions. This is why engineers rate transmissions for torque, not HP.

Too much torque, too much vehicle weight, hard driving are what kill transmissions.
cbulen is offline  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old February 2nd, 2013, 22:22
MR2OC Founder
 
Bill Strong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Lovingston, Va
Age: 56
Posts: 42,296
OldTrader Rating: (122)
i HAVE AN F40 IN MY GARAGE.
here is a link to my album. It bolts up to the Northstar V8
https://picasaweb.google.com/1041032...eat=directlink



I am most likely going to use this transaxle in my Spyder with a 3MZ

Bill Strong
Marketing Director
On-Air Host
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ChampCar Endurance Series


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bill Strong is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old February 3rd, 2013, 12:49
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reno NV
Age: 47
Posts: 2,497
OldTrader Rating: (19)
That's an interesting idea. You will have to create an adapter plate for engine to trans bellhousing mating, then figure out the flywheel/clutch.

I figured out that the easiest way to adapt the F40 to the Northstar is to use the AT flexplate from the northstar, then stack a spacer on top of that, then use the Spec Northstar flywheel with the ring gear removed. The thickness of the spacer is critical and it MUST have parallel faces. the AT flexplate is needed so the starter can engage the ring gear. As you know the starter on the Northstar is block mounted and in the valley at 12 o'clock, so the F40 just needs the webbing at the top ground out to clear the starter nose.

I haven't the faintest clue where the starter is located on the 3MZ, but I assume it doesn't have one, and is mounted on the (oem 3MZ) trans. THis could be an issue for you. It might be possible to mount the starter on your adaptor plate, in the location the F40 has clearance for, cast into the bell (and clearly visible in your photo), but you will have to use a 'merican rotation starter as the toyota starters are reverse rotation. Not sure how you will be able to find a starter with the correct tooth profile to engage the ring gear. Also, the 3MZ will need to be checked to see if there is room for the starter to run alongside of the block or oil pan at that location. The first obvious choice is to see if a N* starter will work.

Also, I found out the hard way, when I tried to use the F40 with the Audi ABZ, that the ABZ would have required some engine-to-trans bolts be located completely INSIDE the bellhousing, which of course means its impossible to use these bolts. You will need to check to make sure the 3MZ does not have this issue.

Last edited by cbulen; February 3rd, 2013 at 12:52.
cbulen is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old February 5th, 2013, 18:54
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia
Age: 28
Posts: 1,141
OldTrader Rating: (12)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared
If you want a 6 speed, use the toyota 6 speed that mates to the 3s. See the v6 forum for more info on that
I'm sorry, what transmission is this? It's not FWD is it?
Apokryphos is offline  
post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old February 5th, 2013, 19:21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reno NV
Age: 47
Posts: 2,497
OldTrader Rating: (19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokryphos
I'm sorry, what transmission is this? It's not FWD is it?
See post #1.

See my post above for more info about the F40
cbulen is offline  
post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old April 30th, 2014, 08:29
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh/Wake Forest, NC
Age: 56
Posts: 7
OldTrader Rating: (0)
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared View Post
http://www.schramauto.com/Search/Par...d=18968&name=0

If the link does not work, search 2006, pontiac, G6 manual transmission.

This mates to a few fun motors (LS4, many big v6's). There is this v6 flange available, and the 4cyl ecotec bellhousing if someone wanted one for the 2.0/ 2.2 ecotec motors, or the Saab 2.8 turbo 6
Sold out. Any other places to find a deal like this ?

Last edited by Ghostrider10; April 30th, 2014 at 08:31. Reason: submitted too soon
Ghostrider10 is offline  
post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old April 30th, 2014, 10:38
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Reno NV
Age: 47
Posts: 2,497
OldTrader Rating: (19)
Ask the Fiero guys on their forum. Ask V8Archie (google him). The fiero guys are the ones buying up these trans
cbulen is offline  
post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old May 1st, 2014, 10:30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh/Wake Forest, NC
Age: 56
Posts: 7
OldTrader Rating: (0)
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbulen View Post
Ask the Fiero guys on their forum. Ask V8Archie (google him). The fiero guys are the ones buying up these trans
Thanks cbulen
Ghostrider10 is offline  
post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old June 1st, 2014, 22:57
MR2OC Founder
 
Bill Strong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Lovingston, Va
Age: 56
Posts: 42,296
OldTrader Rating: (122)
I have an F40 as pictured above. Never used. collecting dust. make an offer.
My email is [email protected]

Bill Strong
Marketing Director
On-Air Host
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ChampCar Endurance Series


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bill Strong is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MR2 Owners Club Message Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: (0 members)
 



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome