Audi v8 powered La Bala - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 71 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2009, 16:47 Thread Starter
Build a 1,500lb La Bala!
 
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Audi v8 powered La Bala

I've been inspired by Paul Woods' Audi project to investigate the possibility of using the Audi 4.2 v8 in my MKI MR2 based La Bala project. Using the dimensions provided by Paul and an estimate of 650# engine/transaxle weight I modeled the engine in Solidworks. To be truthful the exact weight of the v8 is not known to me, but I figure that 650# is on the high side. I've modeled the 4AGE 20v BT with C52 transaxle at 380# which is the weight I got on my bathroom scales a few years ago.



Compare the CoG from the Transverse to the Longitudinal engine package. Here represented with a 'weight' if not scale accurate model of the Toyota 20v powerplant:


There is now plenty of room to create a decent independent rear suspension too.



This project has not yet been determined to be a reality, I'm just posting some initial thoughts and observations and getting some feedback. I don't know the cost that these engines/transaxles command, but I expect at least a $5000 pricetag.

Chris Bulen and Bill Strong have also been instrumental in moving me this direction.

I think an 1,800Lb middy with 300/300 hp/torque and the sound of a v8 would be pretty fearsome.

Steve Graber
La Bala - A lightweight tube-frame mid-engine car for road and track -- 4AGE power

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Last edited by sgraber; May 12th, 2009 at 16:50.
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post #2 of 71 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2009, 22:13
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with me in the front seat the wight of the car would be center of the front wheels
I am pretty certain there wont be any issues.

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post #3 of 71 (permalink) Old May 12th, 2009, 22:14
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it is going to need way taller and wider wheels. time for some rear arches man!

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post #4 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 01:51
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I agree with Bill, extra rear tyre width is going to be a must.I am amazed at how little the COG has changed with the V8 option.

I think this is the engine/trans package a car like yours should always have... true supercar layout and a ridiculous power to weight ratio, not to mention it making all the right noises....love it.


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post #5 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 06:53
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just remember, higher HP, higher speeds, bigger tubes. Crashes happen more frequently as the speeds increase. Bearings need to be bigger to handle the speeds as do the suspension components. Safety cage is a big thing as well. Higher speeds, higher loads.

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post #6 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 09:27 Thread Starter
Build a 1,500lb La Bala!
 
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The chassis is already designed for the higher loads. It's got much more metal around the passengers than any lotus 7 for instance and also more than a cobra... There will be additional bracing at the rear of the car and the engine bay reconfigured to accept much wider tires. The lower frame rails could be upsized very easily or even done in 1.5" DOM with little changes overall.

The audi engine weighs 396# according to this thread. I believe that the transaxle weighs 150lbs (CBulen, is that right?) So 550#, which is less than I estimated.
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post #7 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 10:09
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I weighed my Audi ABZ engine (fitted into a Lotus Esprit) a while back and it came in at 180KG (400lb), but that didn't include the following :-

Flywheel
Clutch
Wiring loom
Coil packs
fluids
PS pump
Air con pump

Some of that stuff you won't need so figure on about 205KG (450lb) for a fully dressed running ABZ engine.

The 01X transaxle is 60KG so you are looking at 265KG (580lb) for an assembled drive train.

Hope that helps

Hilly

Last edited by athills; May 13th, 2009 at 10:33.
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post #8 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 13:01 Thread Starter
Build a 1,500lb La Bala!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athills
I weighed my Audi ABZ engine (fitted into a Lotus Esprit) a while back and it came in at 180KG (400lb), but that didn't include the following :-

Flywheel
Clutch
Wiring loom
Coil packs
fluids
PS pump
Air con pump

Some of that stuff you won't need so figure on about 205KG (450lb) for a fully dressed running ABZ engine.

The 01X transaxle is 60KG so you are looking at 265KG (580lb) for an assembled drive train.

Hope that helps

Hilly

Helpful indeed. Thank you very much. Hilly, I very much enjoyed your thread on MotorGeek.com. You are an inspiration (and a considerable source of jealousy) to many red blooded men and women around the world. Your Esprit project is fantastic.

Steve

Steve Graber
La Bala - A lightweight tube-frame mid-engine car for road and track -- 4AGE power

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post #9 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 13:20
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He has a lot to answer for steve! He is responsible for me going down the Audi V8 route on my car and now yours too! I've got a little Hilly shrine under the stairs lol


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post #10 of 71 (permalink) Old May 13th, 2009, 14:41
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And don't forget: Hilly inspired Mike_H's V8 mark2!
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post #11 of 71 (permalink) Old May 14th, 2009, 03:59
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Stop it!!!!

You are making me blush ..........
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post #12 of 71 (permalink) Old June 14th, 2009, 23:06
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Found a cheap ABZ if you are still thinking about this, needs a tranaxle though http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-...Q5fAccessories.
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post #13 of 71 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2009, 12:48 Thread Starter
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I've been looking for a 2WD 01X or 01E geabox the past while and think that this part will need to be imported from the UK unless someone has a better idea for a US sourced transaxle that is 'plug n play' onto the 4.2L v8?

Suprisingly I've found a variety of low mileage 4.2 lumps in mid 90's and early 2000's vintage for under 2K and the supply is local to me so that pleases me.

The work done by Paul (and of course Hilly) regarding the shifter assy, vems ecu and cv axles makes me feel like this project is not only realistic, but can be done to a reasonable budget.

I think really the only issue right now is a suitable transaxle. Question for Paul or AT... Is THIS the correct gearbox? If that is the price then it may be economical to have one shipped freight from the UK!
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post #14 of 71 (permalink) Old June 21st, 2009, 13:01
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I am not 100% sure if that is the same as mine just from looking at that pic steve, it is very hard to tell! But this one is definately the same as the one i have.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A4-57-REG...mZ110382606051

If you need someone in the UK to act as a shipper just let me know, just in case the seller will not ship to the US, i am happy to do that for you if all else fails.
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post #15 of 71 (permalink) Old June 22nd, 2009, 07:26
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Nice project. This would be a rocket on wheels... Im looking forword to see this get built.
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post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old June 24th, 2009, 04:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgraber
I've been looking for a 2WD 01X or 01E geabox the past while and think that this part will need to be imported from the UK unless someone has a better idea for a US sourced transaxle that is 'plug n play' onto the 4.2L v8?

Suprisingly I've found a variety of low mileage 4.2 lumps in mid 90's and early 2000's vintage for under 2K and the supply is local to me so that pleases me.

The work done by Paul (and of course Hilly) regarding the shifter assy, vems ecu and cv axles makes me feel like this project is not only realistic, but can be done to a reasonable budget.

I think really the only issue right now is a suitable transaxle. Question for Paul or AT... Is THIS the correct gearbox? If that is the price then it may be economical to have one shipped freight from the UK!
That is an 01X gearbox the same as I have used on my car so will bolt straight onto an Audi V8.............

Hilly
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post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old June 24th, 2009, 10:36 Thread Starter
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I am curious about the VEMS ecu and what is required to make this engine run correctly. I have not spent much time looking into VEMS, but I think it's running the same code as MS?

I actually have 2 megasquirtnExtra ecus with full wiring and wideband, coils, triggers, etc sitting in a box in the garage. Do you think it's reasonable to use one of these to run the Audi lump?
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post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old June 24th, 2009, 12:15
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Same engine in the Phaeton, and if it can make that 5,200 pound tank accelerate like it does, it should be scary wicked in a car like this.
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post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old June 26th, 2009, 03:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgraber
I am curious about the VEMS ecu and what is required to make this engine run correctly. I have not spent much time looking into VEMS, but I think it's running the same code as MS?

I actually have 2 megasquirtnExtra ecus with full wiring and wideband, coils, triggers, etc sitting in a box in the garage. Do you think it's reasonable to use one of these to run the Audi lump?
VEMS is what used to be called MegaSquirtAVR.
It is similar to MegaSquirt (it uss the same MegaTune software), but uses a different processor and has a bunch of other stuff included such as built-in wideband lambda, knock sensing, EGT etc.

It also has much more I/O than MegaSquirt in that it has 8 injector + 8 ignition channels + a load of other I/O.
This is where MS struggles a bit with the ABZ as it only has 2 injector channels (not a big deal) and only a single ignition channel which is more of a problem as the ABZ has no dizzy.
MS can be hardware modified to provide 4 ignition output so it will run a V8 in wasted spark.

By the time you have added all the bit onto a MS it actually ends up more expensive than VEMS. However as you already have 2 MS units then that is not so much of a issue.

Hilly
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post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old June 27th, 2009, 03:26
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Hey Steve,
Congrats on getting LaBala on something like 3 pages of Kit Car Builder magazine!

I wonder if it will cause a spike in sales for you....
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