"Baby Sports Cars Are Bad" - Building the LFA - MR2 Owners Club Message Board
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2012, 08:59 Thread Starter
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Exclamation "Baby Sports Cars Are Bad" - Building the LFA

5 Part series of building the LFA
some interesting direction changes...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...r-to-bar-none/

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2012, 10:34
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Good read! thanks for the link.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old July 17th, 2012, 10:36
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That thing is hood hunching hot.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old July 18th, 2012, 22:21
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Wait a minute, don't we all drive "baby sports cars"? I find that somewhat insulting!
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old July 19th, 2012, 06:00 Thread Starter
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we do... that is what I was getting at. I am betting that is why you wont see another MR2.

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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old July 19th, 2012, 08:25
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Probably not, especially with the GT86/FR-S being so popular, and technically still "mid-engine".
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old July 20th, 2012, 07:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowned
Probably not, especially with the GT86/FR-S being so popular, and technically still "mid-engine".
I really don't understand why you even bother saying that.

It's a failing of the English language to describe the GT86/FR-S, RX-8, etc as "mid-engine" while also describing the MR2, X1/9, 914 as "mid-engine". You cold describe the former as "front-mid" and latter as just "mid", as is common, but it still doesn't communicate the differences. They're not at all the same. Importantly, they're VERY not the same from a projects standpoint. As in "what kind of car do we want to make". They will be separate points on the list, with separate characteristics, and separate target audiences.

The AE86 and AW11 coexisted for an amount of time, were similarly sized, and had the same engine. Wouldn't you expect a cannibalization of AW11 sales by the AE86, considering it was cheaper?

Why, then, do you think Toyota even decided to make the AW11 if they already had a small, lightweight, RWD, sporty car in the works (and in production, for that matter)?

What I'm getting at is that I seriously doubt the position of the engine in the engine bay of the GT86/FR-S/BRZ won't sway a single person at Toyota in one direction or the other about making another MR. I would argue that market segment, sales cannibalization, and the ability to actually sell the damned things will, though.


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Originally Posted by Bill Strong
we do... that is what I was getting at. I am betting that is why you wont see another MR2.
Remember that was something said 12 years ago. Toyota was a VERY different company then. I'd also say the GT86/FR-S/BRZ is good evidence they no longer believe that.


Sorry for the ramble. Haven't eaten breakfast yet.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old July 20th, 2012, 10:47
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Yeah I'm not sure where you were going, there. Technically if the engine is mounted aft of the front shock towers and fore of the rear shock towers, it's mounted "amidships", and is therefore mid-engine, regardless of whether the engine is fore or aft of the driver/passenger. Yes, the modern term for it is "front-midship", and cars like the 350/370Z, RX-7/8 and FR-S/BRZ exemplify this.

As for the possibility of Toyota producing another sports car well, there are rumors circling around that they're going to develop something with BMW, but I think they're really just intending on sharing more hybrid/electric technology and that Toyota sees no more room for a small sports car. The FR-S/86 is proving to be a runaway success, so I wouldn't count another sports car entirely out... if anything they might bring back some sort of Supra re-incarnate, but it's all speculation at this point.

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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old August 4th, 2012, 20:58
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I dont want to see another mr2.
Can we get what we want out of it? Will it be light, powerful, cheap, comfortable, fast, small, good looking? Hmm two of those are impossible with todays regulations/exchange rate, and thats the important ones that cant be done.

If its going to be a tank id rather not have a new mr2. My car is obscure and that makes it appealing. I dont want something to tarnish the name of the mr2, it willl undoubltedly be overhyped and marketed as the FRS was. If toyota manages to make a sharp handling, lightweight, cheap, 200hp+ car than ill like it but it shouldnt be sold idf its not all of those.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 10:32
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They should of made one out of beer cans without all those fancy sensers and sell it for.......1,000,000.00 dollars. Naaa, but around 100k. Call it a Speedy123 or some magical name they pull out of a hat.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 15:36
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Originally Posted by Turbowned
Probably not, especially with the GT86/FR-S being so popular, and technically still "mid-engine".
Mid engine is behind the seats in front of the axle center line. The FR-s is front mid. In front of the seats behind the axle center line.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 15:48
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There is a market for small sports cars, it is just owned by Mazda. Mazda keeps selling tons of Miatas because it gives the target market what they want. The MK3 was not what the MR2 market wanted. One, the looks was love or hate. Also, no trunk. Really stupid. 3rd, very pedestrian engine. Last, most didn't really want a drop top. Most people looking for a small affordable Japanese convertible go to the Mazda dealer. The MK2s just became too expensive and kinda got away from the original formula. Toyota could do a MK4 if they want. The problem is that modern Toyota would probably eff it up by making it a 3000+ lb hybrid instead of keeping it light and simple. 2 seat, mid engine, coupe, good power, but something with character. No hybrids, electric, diesel, etc. If the weight is low enough they could do a small displacement direct injected turbo.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 16:04
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I painted my greddy exhaust black and cut the tips of. It looks like I have a stock exhaust. Had my fat 200 pound girl friend with me, smoked that wacky scion by 10 cars. I take it the driver had an opportunity, to race a stock looking mr2. He was mad.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 16:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbowned
As for the possibility of Toyota producing another sports car well, there are rumors circling around that they're going to develop something with BMW, but I think they're really just intending on sharing more hybrid/electric technology and that Toyota sees no more room for a small sports car. The FR-S/86 is proving to be a runaway success, so I wouldn't count another sports car entirely out... if anything they might bring back some sort of Supra re-incarnate, but it's all speculation at this point.
I can handle a hybrid as long as it's mid-engined, light weight (2,400 - 2,800lbs) and shares parts across platforms so we don't break the bank playing with them.

As to your comment on the GT86 and Supra, you couldn't find a better car to fill the gap inbetween these two. The supra will easily be in the $60k + range if and when produced. A small and obscure $30 - $40k sports car surely would fit in there nicely and amortize some of the costs.

-Josh
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 21:45
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Originally Posted by 3SGTE-WaNNaBe
I can handle a hybrid as long as it's mid-engined, light weight (2,400 - 2,800lbs) and shares parts across platforms so we don't break the bank playing with them.

As to your comment on the GT86 and Supra, you couldn't find a better car to fill the gap inbetween these two. The supra will easily be in the $60k + range if and when produced. A small and obscure $30 - $40k sports car surely would fit in there nicely and amortize some of the costs.

-Josh
If Nissan, much smaller than Toyota, can afford to sell the 370Z for high 30s to low 40s, then Toyota can afford to sell a Supra for the same price range. They can use the Lexus IS chassis and running gear. All it needs is a fine body stretched over it and NO DAMN HYBRID SYSTEM in it!

The words light weight and hybrid don't go together. If you look at most hybrids on the market, most of them weigh what like 400lbs more than their standard counterparts. Keep the weight out and the handling good.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 22:38
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3jzgte....two in each garage all over the world. I can see it now!
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old August 17th, 2012, 22:48
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I see a gank of american, revamped cars all over. And what does Toyota do? Nice scion. I see the same ONE every day.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 00:04
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The FR-S should have been a Toyota. I know this has been argued and discussed before, but the Toyota line needs an image car. If Scion is supposed to be about fun inexpensive cars for young people, then the Tc should have been enough.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 01:51
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Originally Posted by scottgas
The FR-S should have been a Toyota. I know this has been argued and discussed before, but the Toyota line needs an image car. If Scion is supposed to be about fun inexpensive cars for young people, then the Tc should have been enough.
my gf drives the tc2. Its rims are what so heavy, 51 pounds wheel and tire on a 2.5 liter is way too much. Its a nice daily driver with its 16 inch rpf1s. The lighter wheels that we can aford came in a wopping 38 pound wheel and tire. Exahust, and home cheepo intake got her to beat an vette from early 80s. We actually got one to race us on the freeway. Is it faster than the new scion batmobile? Maybe headers or a tune and it should be close.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old August 18th, 2012, 15:26
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The FR-S isn't all about speed. Although since it is the top car at Scion it should be the fastest. I read a while back about a 2nd gen Tc being put on a dyno. The first few runs it put down about what is expected based on it factory hp rating. After cooling, they ran the car again an it laid down 16 or 18 hp more than the early runs. The crew was kinda weirded out by it so they ran it again with the same output. I don't remember the exact numbers, but based on the at wheels numbers they saw, it equated to something like 216 or so hp at the crank. The only thing the crew could come up with to explain was that maybe the ecu has some kind of fuzzy logic where it learns what the drivers wants and retunes itself accordingly. I posted this before and the basic response was bs. lol. It does seem that most new engines are pretty choked off from the factory so they pick up pretty healthy gains when uncorked and/or retuned. Based on weight and overall power, the new Tc should move pretty good considering. Especially with much lighter wheels and being uncorked.
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