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Hybrid Turbocharger

11K views 17 replies 14 participants last post by  rmeller 
#1 · (Edited)
#3 ·
Bill Strong said:
This is for marine use, and probably on a huge scale, but damn, that would be really cool. Could the generator / alternator be replaced by a small version of this?


Google: Aeristech
They are a British firm that is developing this technology for cars. They claim super fast spool. I wonder how long it will be before we see this technology on production vehicles.. It can also be used to generate electricity, presumably as Bill pointed out, to replace the alternators we all use
 
#4 ·
sarnodude said:
Bill Strong said:
This is for marine use, and probably on a huge scale, but damn, that would be really cool. Could the generator / alternator be replaced by a small version of this?


Google: Aeristech
They are a British firm that is developing this technology for cars. They claim super fast spool. I wonder how long it will be before we see this technology on production vehicles.. It can also be used to generate electricity, presumably as Bill pointed out, to replace the alternators we all use

That's amazing. You could pull a bit of battery power to spool up the turbo, and recharge the battery (instead of waste exhaust gases out a wastegate) when underway.

And to clarify, I wasn't planning to add electric motors to my car. I was just thinking it could be a workable idea. Eventually someone's going to do innovative work like Aeristech on a big scale. :)
 
#18 · (Edited)
..You could pull a bit of battery power to spool up the turbo, and recharge the battery (instead of waste exhaust gases out a wastegate) when underway.
It would take more than a "bit" of battery power. I started a thread on this idea a few years ago, and the consensus was that the electrical load would be prohibitive. I think that it could work in principle, but the electromechanical component would have to be specialized and the control system would be complex and expensive.

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=451777&referrerid=42121
 
#8 ·
What would really be neat is a turbo that 1. can have super fast spool by pulling battery power 2. charge the battery when cruising 3. ALSO function as a normal turbocharger when accelerating and provide boost to the gasoline engine. You could either have a weight savings and small performance boost by replacing the alternator or you could have a high performance boosted hybrid.
 
#10 ·
Since the question is can you replace the alternator with something like this, I have to believe that you are thinking of the concept of using the generator as a motor. The short answer is SURE! The long answer is why bother. Basically, the link is an electric supercharger for a ship. The idea of replacing the generator has all the problems of an electric supercharger - but is even less effective because it drives the crank with its severly limited power instead of a compressor.

O
 
#11 ·
I don't think this could completely replace the charging system on a car, with its rapidly-changing power demands, and widely varying engine speeds. Keep in mind that the generator rotor is adding significant rotational inertia to the turbine. It's possible this could be negated by using the motor/generator to slow the compressor when the throttle is reduced, and spin it up when the throttle is increased, but that would greatly reduce the efficiency of the system when power demands change so quickly.
It works on a ship because there is such a huge amount of exhaust gas flow, even at idle, and they're cruising across the ocean at more or less constant engine speed for weeks on end. Notice that the engine in the ship makes its maximum power at 90 rpm. It probably has a 100 rpm redline.

Using this as a super-quick spool turbo, and supplemental charging could be feasible. It's certainly something I would leave to the OEMs, though; to get this to integrate smoothly will require a huge amount of R&D and software development. I've heard rumors that BMW may be using an electric turbo in addition to conventional turbo(s) on the next M3. I could see them using an exhaust-driven generator/turbo, especially since they already use a "smart" alternator program to draw less power from the alternator when more power is demanded for moving the vehicle, and more when the engine is slowing down, like 'regenerative braking lite' for non-hybrid vehicles.

It's definitely a cool concept for keeping the internal-combustion engine viable as fuel economy and emissions standards continue to get more and more stringent, but I don't see it as something that could be retrofitted to an existing car without prohibitive cost and complexity.
 
#12 ·
A turbine that functions well at redline won't spin fast enough to create energy at idle. It's the same problem you face with a conventional turbo. This might be able to be fixed with variable vane, variable venturi etc technology but it would be a complex system. Otherwise you are facing the same problem old Generator powered cars had of not charging enough at idle.

I don't like hybrids in general but I think that they should take that technology and have a small version inside the bellhousing. This means you eliminate the starter and alternator and it's all done by the single unit.
 
#14 ·
Looking forward to seeing this technology at work in Melbourne next year. I've heard some interesting rumours about the 2014 F1 engines. Enough torque to have traction issues in 5th gear. And 60kW of electrical power available to spool the turbo should make it pretty much instant spool.
 
#17 ·
Hybrid

A possible and cost effective Hybrid solution?
Borrow GM's mild hybrid system. Basically an oversized alternator, which can or does eliminate the conventional alternator and starter. This will minimize any additional weight.

Another cool factor?
On rare engines, starters can be very expensive to repair or replace. This might be a cheaper alternative.

Oh, this might satisfy a legal requirement and give MR2 owners to HOV lanes.

This system is somewhat effective on large vehicles, pickup trucks. Should be more so on a lightweight MK1.
Kerry
 
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